Mulugeta Wodajo

Hello, everybody. We're back. It's June 20th. We're definitely in the midst of Washington summer, and also a couple graduations. So we both had to go to different cities, so we we missed a couple of weeks, but, it's nice to be back.

Yes. It's nice to be back. I agree. We missed actually 3 weeks, Phil. In our last session, 3 weeks ago, we covered phase 1 of the universities, which covered roughly 1962 to 1968.

Today we hope we'll cover phase 2 of the university roughly 68 to 74. Okay. I must say that, the events I'll describe, kind of overlap. I mean, they didn't have a sudden and abrupt end in 68 or an abrupt beginning in, you know, I mean, the the over the overlap over the 2 phases. So let's not be too, too Rigid, I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. Too rigid about the dates. You know? Yeah.

It's Yeah. Yeah. It was just like book chapters in a history book. I mean, you know, people don't live by chapters. Yeah.

Yeah. After 97 for the certainly, I mean, it's an entirely different, university. It's under the Derg. It was re op it was closed in 74. I left the university and it and when it reopened it, it was reopened as I discovered by university no longer.

I just lost university. That's also the year I left the university to join the World Bank in Washington Yeah. And to start my self imposed exile of sorts. Yeah. So 74 is definitely, an important date, a clear break.

Yeah. That doesn't sound made up. Yeah. No. No.

No. But 68 is, arbitrary, really. It's could have been 67. It's could have been 69. Partly, it's the year I've completed my year as my, service as dean.

Mhmm. And then, in 69 late 69, early 70, we went on sabbatical leave. So there is a reason why we took that as a breaking off point, for phase 1. Yeah. But as I said, some of the events I'm describing also started before.

Yeah. I mean, in the first phase, but continued on in the second phase. So so it's not 3 g does as as you said. No. But and also 67, 68 were also political times, you know, in the world, in Europe, in Prague.

I mean, so it's not just we're making it up. No. No. It's not. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Well, in when I left the university when I left Addis Ababa in the university in 1974, I was aged 40 years. I was Wow. At the height of my career, to so to say really.

Mhmm. When the university closed and I had no job having resigned from the office of academic vice president, I was delighted to be invited by the World Bank to join them. You know, it was a lucky coincidence to, I think we'll describe that some other day. Mhmm. But, today, we'll just mention that I left the university in 1974.

I left just for your information on Muscarum 10th, which is about September the 19th, roughly. It's 18th 19th. The the important thing is that I left exactly a week after the emperor was deposed. Wow. So these are these are very difficult times, and I was lucky really to have left the country without much difficulty by way from the police or from the immigration people.

Yeah. Anyway, today, we're going to highlight phase 2, focusing, my small share of contribution to the university's growth and development. I will focus, if this is alright with you, on 3 programs. Okay. That, in a way, mirror the period done under discussion.

And also, they were very important component in the in the life of the university. And thirdly, these are the 3 programs that had something to do within their creation and in the rare and how they were created and how they were administered. And those 3 programs are first, the laboratory school. Mhmm. 1.

The Ethiopian School Living Certificate Examination, ESLCE. Okay. And third and thirdly, the Ethiopian University Service. Okay. I never heard of that one.

Never heard of that one. Mm-mm. Okay. It's okay. We'll get to it.

Good. Let let let's start with the lab score. We it's official name is the Berdymariam Labs Laboratory School. Berdimarium was an emperor that reigned in Ethiopia in the 16th century during the time of Grime, Mohammed Grime. Anyway, there is the emperor who named the school.

Okay. And one day, we he came to visit the university, and we tried to show him the little school who had started behind the university. And, in fact, we were about to call it, something else, but then the minister said, no. You you know, you just don't go around and call you. Give names to places.

Why don't you ask the emperor to name it for you? I didn't know. So I gave the emperor the emperor. And on the spot side, the plate call it school. That's good.

So what was the lab school? Popularly known as the lab school. Mhmm. Well, it was it had two purposes, really. First, it no.

You know, I must say it was attached to the faculty of education. Although it had a director, I was ultimately, the head of that school, you know, via the, the head the labs the director. Well, it was intended to serve as a as a demonstration school in the sense. It's a as a as a place for student teaching, practice teaching for the students who are in the faculty of education. Mhmm.

That was one purpose. The other purpose was it was intended to serve as a place for educational research on psych educational psychology producing of teaching materials for Ethiopian children, and and and writing of textbooks, you know, generally, educational research. Mhmm. And and it had at the beginning grades 1 to 12, which is a very expensive affair for a university to run a full fledged primary and secondary school. Yeah.

We might need to keep it for some time, but the expenses became too much. And in any event, it didn't serve really the purpose for which it was established. I mean, the the school was too was not representative enough, to serve as a laboratory school, as a demonstration school, or as a as a place for student teaching. Mhmm. Most of the students came from, you know, the higher classes, so to say, middle and higher social classes.

Whereas the students with who are training were going into the provinces and teaching in the rural areas. So it didn't reflect the typical student population in Ethiopia. So so to make a long story short, we abandoned the grade 1 to 12 arrangement. Faced it out. 1st grade 1 to 6 and then later on the secondary school.

The who was very So what did you end up doing? So you went from 1 to 12 to 1 to 6 or or, you know, 7 to 12? 1st, we start no. We we we we gradually phased out the entire 1 to 12, but over a period of time. Instead, we only had one grade, grade 12.

Mhmm. But it wasn't grade 12, just like any other secondary school, but it was a grade 12 in which, which was to serve as a feeder for the, school of for the faculty of education. Mhmm. Our main problem in the faculty of education is that, everybody says, you know, the teaching is very, very important. But, we had only we could attract only very few students who are coming through the regular school living certificate examination to the faculty of education.

So we have to have a special avenue for admission to the faculty of education. So what we did was, we established this grade what we call it special special teacher training program. I forget the exact name, but it was a special program in the sense that we selected students from from the whole country. Mhmm. From all the 14 provinces at the end of their 11th grade.

We would go around in each secondary school, give examinations and take the top ten from virtually every province. Interesting. And we brought them into this laboratory school, into the special, program, the 12th grade. It was on a very enriched program. Enrich in the sense that we had very high caliber teachers, that were provided to us through a project that, we developed in the faculty of education and funded by, UNDP.

We had something like 15, 16, 17. I forget international teachers in in virtually every subject, mathematics, English, history, all the many nationalities, you know. The program was funded by from UNDP, but it was administered the executive, on executive in terms of implementation, it was UNESCO. This is how your NBP works. If it's an agricultural project, they're financing.

They would give it to FAO, the food and agricultural organization to implement it. Yeah. If you sign education project, they would give the money, but we'll have, UNESCO to to, implement it. Okay. Similarly, with the deficit, labor project, then they would give it to the Ministry of Labor and so forth.

Now, we developed this proposal as a the UNESCO and the United Nations programs in general, they require counterpart contribution. I mean, they they would contribute say 70, 80%. But we have to come up with the balance to 10, 20, 30 depends on on the nature of the program. So what we did was, we had a creative way of getting the counterpart contribution. The government's counterpart contribution.

We gave monetary value to the land we had there. Oh, okay. The buildings we had there. Yeah. To the administrative service we had there.

And our contribution became, you know, when you monetize it, it was very, very high. Anyway, we managed to, convince the, the the authorities in New York, UNDP, and, we got, I forget the amount of money, but something like 4, $5,000,000 worth of project Wow. With which we were able to employ those, 15 to 20, 15, 17, 18 teachers, from, you know, through UNESCO. So yes. No.

It's interesting that I mean, first of all, 2 things. 1 is that, that you guys pivoted. I mean, you started off with building a a what, you know, what you described, what you named as a laboratory school as a laboratory. Yeah. You completely changed the purpose, which is interesting.

Right? Yes. Yes. And then secondly, the timeline. I mean, because all this was done quickly.

I mean, you wanted to start a project of any scale. Now it would take years. I mean, so how did you guys do this in just a short time? I mean, to change the mission and then raise the money and execute it. This is what in the space of 5 years, less.

Yeah. Well, yes. You're right. I I I don't want to take too much, credit for it. But my first assignment when I joined the university, I was teaching one course in 1963.

But con, but I was I I was told to focus on developing this project for UNESCO and UNDP too. So I spent virtually full time developing a project and giving it a monetary value and and and taking it to New York and and defend it and so forth. It was quick, but we managed also in early sixties. You know? There weren't all that many African countries that would Yeah.

That would compete with us. So there were a few, but not all that many. And this was 63 that it started, 64. But, it it it it became a full fledged special teacher training program by 6566. The the the most important thing to remember here is that whereas before this social program was established, the number of students the faculty of education would get through the school living certificate was something under 10.

Right. 6, 7, 8. But with this program, we were able to get as many as 120, 130 students. Oh my god. Yeah.

So our enrollment just, you know, blossomed like anything. Yes. I took over the whole college. Not sure. Yeah.

And another important another innovative part of it was that we we had the, competition within a province. We didn't we didn't have a national competition. Provinces or or Gamukofa in Azores. We would go to anyone of the 14 provinces. Go to their secondary schools.

Have the kids compete with each other from that secondary school or from that, province. Yeah. So they don't have to compete with those from Adi's. Adi's compete on this. I know.

I guess it's self. Yeah. And in this manner, Nafil, we were able to get a larger number of student intake, not only in terms of numbers, but in terms of representation. If we had left it only to the school living certificate, only oh, there are many studies. There's good many studies that would show that at one time, something like 80 to 90% of the students admission into the university were only from 3 or 4 places.

Mhmm. Addis Ababa, Shawwa, Harar, and Asmara. Wow. Between these 3, 4 places. The big the big developed areas.

Yeah. Yeah. That's where you had the the the best schools. Yeah. The good teachers, the laboratories.

And so far, these are the kids who would pass the examination. So, they all who would be, you know, all prepared to that good background preparation to pass the Ethiopian School Leaving certificate and get into the university. Yeah. But by doing this, this way from the laboratory school, bringing them then for, 1 year. You know, they they would complete their 12th grade in the in in the lab school plus one more summer, you know, the summer before they get into the freshman year.

That one year more than made up for all the deficiencies they had when Oh my god. Right. Hospitals. Yeah. That's like there's a famous study.

It's like a there's a famous Harvard study like that about affirmative action and and, documenting exactly that at the Ivy's. It was written by, it's a book, of course, I've never read, but it was written by the, the the, presidents of Princeton and Harvard. And, it was a famous book called A River it's not A River Runs, but A River something. But basically that same thing that, you know, it it it once you get them in onto the campus, they perform the same. But even better in the case I say better because, at at one time, the university all university students were put into a freshman program, what they call the freshman program, irrespective of what faculty they were in.

And in that one freshman program, you know, these kids who came in through the lab school excel in virtually every subject. Wow. In history or mathematics or in so, you know, it was it's a good in, evidence that it the students who failed the school living certificate examinations is not because they were not clever or they didn't have the intelligence or and so forth. Yeah. But because they just didn't have the resources.

The schools didn't have the resources. They didn't have good teachers. Yeah. They didn't have school supplies, books, textbooks, and so forth. Yeah.

So here and, oh, another thing is they they were made borders. I mean, you know, so boarding had been abolished. So we kept these kids in in a boarding school. You know? They they had they had feeding at the the they were they were fed with the rest of the university students in the cafeteria.

Uh-huh. Plus, they had the dormitory, of sorts. You know? At least they had good rooms. Relatively good rooms.

And so and and the incentive for them is when they were in the 11th grade in the various provinces, they knew that if they when they complete their 12th grade at the laboratory school, they are guaranteed entrance into the university. Mhmm. Whereas if they stayed in their own provinces and finished their 3rd grade there and suffered their school living certificate, their chances of getting passing that exam was very small. Mhmm. I mean, the passing grade was something like 20, 25%.

In other words, 75% wouldn't make it. Right. Just because the, schools were not good enough. When we come to the school living certificate, that's the second point, we're going to take up today. I will describe what examination looks like and so forth.

But there was a great incentive for the students to come to the lab school because a, they don't have to take the school living certificate. B, they become borders. They they have a good education, guaranteed admission, as I said. And the on in return, the students would pledge to become teachers Mhmm. For 3 to 5 years.

Wow. Yeah. That's a pretty good deal. It's a very good deal. I mean, that's, that you you pay more than that if you join the ROTC now or army reserves.

Yeah. You know, you pay 4 to 8 years of, you know, serving in the military Yeah. To pay your debt. And, and even that, we didn't enforce it very strictly. Like, if a kid said, I wonder if I mean, if those 3rds be after they finish their 3rds of bed, if they really didn't feel that they're they're they're they're good for teaching and they don't want to go into teaching, they would rather go into some other faculty, would tell them, you know, okay.

Bring someone, some elder person who would guarantee, who would be your guarantor that, to pay us back what we spent on you. And they will bring someone that wouldn't follow it up. But in any event very I mean, chose to leave I mean, to not to live by by their promise. They they they all finished their Mhmm. Their their courses at the level at the faculty of education and and become secondary school teachers.

So this school had a tremendous influence on the number of students we were able to meet. And in terms of the university itself, it, as I said, broadened the base in terms of student representation where they came from. So we had, all kind virtually, all the ethnic groups are now represented because, you know, we selected students from from every province, from all 14 provinces of the country. How did you, I mean, did you do it by population? I mean, some provinces were more populous than the others.

Yes. Yeah. We are busy. Yes. Yeah.

Student the number of secondary school students was one factor. The population of the province was another factor. And how far behind they are in terms of their development so to say, you know, was also another factor. Basically, but all the provinces were promised something like 10. Mhmm.

And then some would get a little more like 12 or 13, but it was between 1015 from each province. Okay. Alright. Not a huge range anyway. It's not it's not, you know, 5 versus 30.

Yeah. No. Because we didn't have very clear major way of the major. Yeah. Yeah.

Very nice. So that's that's that's amazing, to be honest with you, that I mean, this is this is stuff that, you know, we still haven't figured out today. I mean, you know, nothing you know? Yeah. I mean, we were ahead of America in terms of, giving, wasting regard here what the Americans call, you know, when they they want to give preference to for instance to the blacks or to the women you know.

Affirmative. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I must say at the beginning, this program was not very popular in the university because they thought were bringing all kinds of people through an examination in which they didn't have much confidence.

Mhmm. The faculty council, we had to have an approval of the faculty council to, you know, to get to admit students through this means because this is a university program after all. Yeah. But once or I think after the second or the third entry, when they saw that these students were excelling, the other students who came in through their school living certificate, I mean this this this this this, criticism just just vanished. Yeah.

No. No. No. In fact, it was the reverse. Everybody want to have a similar program for themselves.

Yeah. Yeah. The the flattery is invitation. But how did you so the ECLC was you know, is I mean, that's a nationwide exam. You know?

So you guys just made an exam for the 11th grade because there's no right? I mean, where did that come from? There are our our staff yeah. Exactly. It was a exam administered by the staff of the faculty of education with the help of staff from the other faculties.

It was this yeah. Okay. He's good. It wasn't school living certificate. No.

But it was good enough exam to select, and I think there was, I don't think that we were disappointed by the the exam or the manner of in which they were selected. Yeah. Well, I mean, the proof is in the pudding. I mean, right? I mean, you Yeah.

Yeah. If you're able to pick the best students. I mean, it's not it's probably not that hard. You know? I don't know.

I guess, I mean, you know, the the number of kids who who are even eligible to take the test is probably not that huge. Right? Sorry? I mean, the number of kids that get to 11th grade, I mean, you know, it's not that huge to send me to make it that far. Right?

I mean, they have to be they have to have enough resources and enough, you know, academic acumen to make it that far. That's true. Yeah. That's true. I mean, there was a lot of dropout in the school system.

Yeah. I mean, there are studies that show of this is another point that we should cover. I don't have so many things to talk about. This was one of the unfortunate, facts of the school system in Ethiopia. It was the system seems to have been developed for the few that pass through the secondary schools rather than for the many that fail on the wayside.

The study show that of those who start the 100 of the of the 100 who start grade 1, barely 10 make it to grade 12. Wow. And yet, you know, the university and the school system is designed for the thing that make it through the school, through the exam, through the school system rather than for the 90 that fell off on the wayside. And to counteract this major problem, we had conducted what they called a sector study to through the World Bank to see what kind of school system would be we should we should have in Ethiopia that would cater to the 90 that or the 80 or 90% that fall on the the wayside instead of the 10. That's that that make it through the school living.

But that's another subject and we'll talk about it maybe. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's fine. I I was reading, it was it was a, it was a from the Department of Education, this guy who came out of, I know Arnie Duncan came out of Chicago, but another guy who's a reformer, I forget where he came out of.

He's also in the DOE, and I was just reading something he was, he that they wrote up about him. And and the statistics were nationwide. Out of a 1000 students this is US. That's our primary school. The number that finished with a 4 year degree is in, you know, the low double digits, like 60 or, you know, 70.

It's not a, yeah, it's not a huge number. Who who finished BA? Finnish BA. Yeah. Now now in Ethiopia, I'm talking about who finished Finished secondary school.

No. I understand. But I'm just saying Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you don't wanna think of the US and I mean, exactly.

You think US and Ethiopia can't be in the same sentence, and it's not it's not that far apart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No. I was not aware of that. But, yeah. So as I said, the at the beginning, the faculty council was skeptical about the quality and, they also criticized the cost involved because we had to go out and and select the students. I mean, it was it wasn't a small administration.

But after a long discussion, we're in the faculty council. We were allowed to launch the program on what they call a trial basis for 1 year. And and then after the end of the 1st year we ask for an extension of you know if we could try for a year to another year. Mhmm. So we were allowed to try it for 2 or 3 years and then, you know, I mean, the program, proved it's worth and the question was never raised.

As I said earlier, the the reverse became the the problem. The the question. Yeah. So that was an important contribution that we made in the faculty of education to the university as a whole the bedmariam. Now later on, this is after I left the number of students finishing high school And, trying to get admitted into the university or in any new faculty of the university was so large Mhmm.

That there was no need for this special program. And it was phased out completely. Oh, I see. So there is no labs could know anymore. In fact, the labs could when I last went there to visit it, about 6 6 years ago, the the the buildings had been converted into where one of the buildings was a library for the faculty of education.

Mhmm. And and so I mean, it was being used for some other purpose. This school doesn't exist anymore. What about the what about the provincial diversity though? I mean, just because you have a huge pool and you can fill the faculty, I mean, what about the opportunities that they didn't get otherwise?

That's a very good question, and I have no answer for it. I don't know if they are giving any special push for those who are coming from the underprivileged, underserved can provinces. Yeah. But you know, for what is worth, they now have what? 20 universities or no.

Not 20 12, 13 universities. So each province is supposed to have a university of its own. Maybe I don't know how good they are or what their qualities are, but I suppose each province will have its own university. So maybe the problem has solved itself, solved in in courts. Yeah.

But but I don't believe, there is a uneven playing field. I doubt if that's good. Because by the by by by the nature of things, not all secondary schools are, you know, equally endowed in terms of textbooks and teachers and so forth. And to make matters worse, the secondary schools are now run by in the in the in the in the vernacular. You know, either Oromo language or now or you know.

So, it's it's a very different setup now. And I I I can't even visualize what the situation looks like, let alone to speak, meaningfully and intelligently. What was going on now? So I, well, that's another topic. But so, I mean, secondary education is done in the local languages?

I mean, so No. No. Primary education is done in the local languages, and English is taught as a second lang language in the primary schools. But the teachers, I mean, since the primary schools are taught in in in the vernacular language, when they come to the secondary schools, their their English is so poor. And and and their preparation the teacher preparation themselves is so poor.

I mean, it was difficult enough to give to run a school in one language. In terms of producing teaching materials, textbooks, training teachers, and and and and and, you know, it's it's there's so many inputs necessary to train I mean, to develop ecosystem. Now if you are you have to replicate this in, I don't know how many languages, then, you know, it becomes an enormous task. But this is more politics than education. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that. So, I mean, what what about Amharic? Is Amharic taught in the schools or it never was taught?

It was only English that was taught? When? I mean, back when you were there or now? Oh, oh, no. When I was there, America was the medium of instruction in in primary schools.

Okay. And English was taught there as a as a subject in the primary schools, elementary schools. Yeah. And and when you get to secondary school, English becomes the medium of teaching. Became the medium of teaching in the secondary schools.

Okay. And America was taught as a subject. So it sort of reversed in a way? Yeah. Okay.

And also the school living certificate would have a paper on an examination for numeric language and literature as there would be a paper in in English and history and so forth. Yeah. Yeah. And now not neither of those is the case? I mean, Amharic is neither neither taught nor is the means of education?

I guess, I mean, I I can I'm not qualified to say the to answer that, but I believe it will differ it would be different from, to. I I suppose in the Amhara regions, it would be thought, but I'm not so sure whether how much of it is thought if in if if at all in in the or or in the origins. I I just don't know, Phil. Yeah. I I can find out, but I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know. That's our next research project. Okay. So Yeah.

So the so the laboratory school, I mean, served its purpose. I mean, it sounds like dramatically so. Yeah. Yeah. And, it served its purpose in, of of as I I think I said in one of our sessions to the extent of rendering the faculty of education the largest units in the university.

Yeah. From the smallest to the largest in a matter of a few years. Yeah. That's why they wanted one. Yeah.

It's just revolutionized. Yeah. Okay. That was the first program I wanted to describe tonight, the laboratory school. Mhmm.

If we can, shall we move on to the second one? Okay. Yeah. The second one is the the EUS Ethiopian University Service. This one I was involved only as one among many.

You know, there was it was a creation of really, of the whole faculty council. So to say, everybody claims a bit of it, you know. Someone who came to the to, give us advice, you know, some of the in fact, a very, senior historian called it, a stroke of genius. By the I think it's the chancellor's advisory committee called it a stroke of genius. It's a uniquely Ethiopian program.

It it in in brief. It's an it's a program in which which in which every student in the university had to go out into the rural areas and and serve for 1 year. At the end of their 3rd year, at the end of their junior year, they would have to go out and and and serve in the rural areas, for 1 year before they come back and do their 4th year. And and how do they decide who decides what they do? Well, that's a good question.

But in principle, they were supposed to go in the, and and do the service in the area in which they're training. Uh-huh. So if they're in the law school, they were supposed to be attached to some courts in the in the or in the provinces. If they were training to become in in doctors or in or or in the sciences, you know, to go to scientific. But this didn't, I mean, there was no enough absorptive capacity in those various areas.

So they were not able to utilize our students unfortunately. We tried the most we could in terms of spreading out the students and and and have them go for their university service in their sphere of in their field of specialization in their field, in their majors. But this was not, we were not able to work to to do it. The law school was a little better because the the ministry of, justice was a bit more organized, and and they were able to take a good many of the law school students. But those who are finishing in majoring in in science, in chemistry, physics, biology, and so forth was very difficult to assign them, in in their field of, in their major field.

Yeah. So they ended up teaching. That's what you remember in one of the sessions. Yeah. You know, the second risk was just mushroomed, and they were short of teachers, and if it weren't for the peace corps volunteers and Ethiopian university service students, they would they would, you know, the secondary schools would have I don't know who would have been there to who would have taught them there.

You know? So, I mean, how many students I mean, 1,000. Right? I mean, what was the not 100. Thousands.

But about about this yeah. 100. About a 1,000. Yeah. 900 to to 1,000.

I think that was about the safe figure to say. Yeah. It's the same thing we're doing now. It's I mean, the US does the same thing. I mean, Americorps, I mean, all these things.

You know? Yeah. I mean, as, you know, you the college students teach the high school students. Right? I mean Okay.

I don't know who who which started first. Well, no. That that's new. I mean, that was, you know, that's, you know, Clinton and, you know, I mean, it was Oh, no. No.

No. We're also 10 years older, at least. I mean, maybe more. Maybe more. Yeah.

Yeah. 20 years older. Yeah. 20 years. I know, but I mean, but the principles don't change.

I mean, you sorta have these 2 groups of, you know, these 2 groups that running in parallel. I mean, the, you know, the college students have skills. They're more flexible. You know, they don't need much money. Yeah.

They're creative and full of energy. I mean, you know, so That's right. But, you know, the I should underscore here that we intended it to be the faculty council when it voted it, that's the senate and we call it faculty council. When it voted it, it voted it as an academic requirement. So, each Hello?

When the faculty council voted, the the for the program, it underscored that it was an academic requirement of the university. Mhmm. Not just a service because if it is a service requirement, then it would have to be parliament or something. Well, you know, but it was an academic requirement just like English 101 or or Ethiopia languages 101, you know. And it was deliberately put at the the end of the 3rd year because by then, the the understanding was that the students would have had learned something that they can teach when they go to the secondary scores.

Plus, they will have that 1 year left, the senior year, to use the experience that they gained there, you know, to collect material for their 4th year thesis. If they're historians or anthropologists or geographers or you or even teachers. And so that when they write their 4th year essay, they will they will be that much richer. I mean, they will have that much more experience. Mhmm.

So, it was as that member of the chancellor's advisory committee called is the stroke of genius. Because the students, when they were first sent, you know, they complained and complained. They just wanted to finish their degree and get it over with. But after they were, you know, required to go there or they wouldn't get their degree, Then, they became so enthused with the program that when they come back they would tell us, please, Gase. Make sure that this program stays.

That that is not dropped. Mhmm. Because we really, learned a lot. We learned what our country looks like. We don't know how we now know how our kind of our people live in the rural side.

And how the farmers are and so forth and so on. So it it became a very popular program. In fact, so popular by the students that they wanted to take over the program. As part of one of their demonstrations, their main target was that the university service program is a student program and therefore the student should themselves run it. Okay.

And we are good about noise and I can even and that's what the faculty council legislation says and so forth and so on. Interesting. And they took they took us to court, I think. I mentioned it to you. I don't know.

May maybe not. They took us to court to say that the university has no authority to, require us such a service that should be for the parliament. Again, we are good that, you know, it is an academic requirement just like any one of the subjects that they're being taught whether it's English or mathematics. That's interesting. But also, they became so mature.

I mean, I have stories to tell. I mean, just just well, let me just say one one of them. I remember a key, one of the students who was sent on university service. I think it was somewhere in Adwa. Somewhere in Tigraya.

Either Adwa or Maicha or anyway. So I went I mean, we we work the staff, including the dean, were constantly in motion to go visit them, you know, which was good. And in a way, I got to see the country that way. But, when I arrived at the school, the students were the school was closed because there was demonstration by the secondary school students against one of the university service students. Why?

Why? Because they said, he doesn't speak loud enough. He writes something on the blackboard, and he be Yes. A good example of, how much these students learn, how much they matured is, when I visited, one of my students, one of my Ethiopian University Service students in Tigray, I forget the where it was. It was Adwa or Maite or somewhere there.

I arrived right in the middle of a demonstration. The school was closed. Students had walked out of their classes. And the reason was that the student was there, the Ethiopian University Service student there, was not teaching them properly. He was too low.

His voice was too low. They couldn't hear him. He was speaking, he was writing too fast. He didn't have time to copy what he was writing on the blackboard. And and and, so, you know, reasons like that.

So I took the students to the side and told him, now do you see what you're doing? What happens to you when, Because he too was demonstrating in this in the university where just before the, he was posted on on university service. Okay. To make a long story short that this was a very maturing experience for the university students. Yeah.

They they learnt a lot and, although they lost the court case, their, you know, their as I said earlier, they wanted to run their court. First, they didn't want the program. They wanted it to first, they didn't want it. I mean, they wanted to graduate as quickly as possible. And at the university, they didn't have the authority to impose a service.

But later on, they claim that if it is a university service, then they should be the ones to run it. Anyway, they lost on both counts and because we had told them and argued successfully in the course that it is an academic requirement. Was there any way to grade them? I mean, like, you didn't have anybody else there. Right?

There's no mentors or monitors or anything like that? Yes. No. We we had selected the director of the school and 2 or 3 senior teachers to have a day to day monitoring of the kids. And then would go the kids are in this, invest students.

And then staff from the faculty of, education or from the various from the, would go as a team. You know, 2, 3 of us would go and, and visit them. Or maybe, I think the requirement was that we should visit them 2 or 3 times a semester. And we tried to do that. I mean, it was quite expensive and Yeah.

I was gonna say, it's a lot. You can't be that would take up your whole time. Yeah. Well well, it's not just I mean, you know, there are lot it's not the same teachers that would go around. You know?

Today, it would be 2, 3 faculty of, students and in another in other words, it's different teachers who would go there. Would rotate. Yeah. Yeah. They rotate.

Exactly. But it did take time. Yeah. And and the distances are not easy. I mean, you couldn't go into all the schools by plane.

Sometimes you have to drive. In fact, we prefer driving because we could, cover more grounds. I mean, more schools that way. Yeah. You could stop everywhere.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You could visit Gojjam and Gondar and maybe another all the schools in Gojjam and Gondar or many of the secondary schools in Gojjam. So, it was expensive, but it was well worth it.

He also but he also learned about the schools themselves. I mean, it's almost like, you know, he had continuous reconnaissance also. Exactly. Exactly. Which, often leads me to the third topic precisely because we know the faculty of education knew the secondary schools a lot, better than any other of the faculties by virtue of the fact that we are training teachers with the secondary schools.

Now, that was how I got to be appointed director of the ESLCE, the 3rd program. That maybe we'll just finish that and Mhmm. And complete the interview for today. The Ethiopian School Living Certificate examination, so was the major the the only source well, the main source of admission to the university. He taught the dual purpose of, admission to the university, as well as certifying students to have completed their secondary schools.

So it's it wasn't a small, undertaking because it's it's almost like the, how do you call it, the SARS examinations here. And it was administered Yeah. To all the secondary schools Absolutely. Same time same time. And, because we don't want any of the exam questions to be leaked.

Yeah. So, and so one day in, I think it was in 64, the president of the university, Casa Waldemariam, he called me to his office and said, Murugeta, you since you know the schools better than your faculty knows the schools better than anyone else, why don't you also serve as the director of the Ethiopian School Living Certificate? Oh my god. Yes. I was not paid a dime.

I simply said, she and. Yeah. And and that was it. Later on after I left, after 4 or 5 years of my, services director with a school living certificate, Someone was hired at a large amount of money. I think he was not, I mean, he knew he knew nobody would work for him.

Him. As I said, the exam was administered jointly, the the jointly, the minister of Geography would write the questions in Geography, the Department of History, the same days examinations in History and Mathematics. And, it was the, my role as director would be to make sure that the examinations were written proper. I mean, you know, on time. And and these professors, they they don't always submit their work on terms.

So you had lots of, huddling to do. But it was very intensive in terms of printing the exams, collecting them, sealing them in a huge bag. Mhmm. Mhmm. Putting, you know, how to say the sealing them with wax and so forth.

And we wanted to make sure that the exams were administered the same day for all of them, in in in throughout the country, in throughout the 14 provinces, and I don't know how many examination centers who had denied this. And and we worked day night. Much of the work for me was in the evenings because in the day, I had a full time work of Edouc as a dean. But it just took a lot of time, and then my main peak time was Christmas holiday. When we were writing the exams, we were duplicating the exams and so forth.

And and they were, administered during the Easter recess in April. Yeah. And to make sure that the exams were administered the same time. I remember one instance when, I had gone with the examiner. You know, the the examinations were put in a bag and given to the examiner.

The examiners were from the university. And, you are supposed to take us one of the small planes to, province Bali. Mhmm. In South Southern Ethiopia. But some other plane left without him.

Oh my God. So that was a big. So we had to tour on the spot. I was able to hire a Cessna. Oh my gosh.

From the airlines Yeah. On on credit. But later on I refused to pay the fee because they had not announced the flight. The pilot had been going to the flight. Right.

So, I mean, it was that that was that it was that critical for us that the exams were given the same day throughout the country. And, I was ex I feel extremely gratified that no leaks occurred, or or even rumored to have occurred during my service as director. And, not not a whisper of a foul player anywhere. Wow. I mean, this is a good record compared to other regional examinations, like, where WAEC, the West African examinations council.

They had the similar examination for all of West Africa. And, you know, you formally, the these students who are taking the London matriculation, but when the matriculation stopped sometime, in the mid sixties, they started their own exam, the West African examinations council. And then then the the same thing with the East African examinations council. They had lots of leaks and lots of, problems in the place and on radio and so forth. Oh my God.

We we were lucky that we had no such, problem. What I mean, how do you I mean, I guess the answer is in the details. I mean I mean, nowadays, I mean, even if you had FedEx and email, it would be hard. I mean, that's that's actually it's actually pretty hard to imagine. They they they, I mean, they went with the bags of examinations, the examination.

In person. So so I mean Person. Yeah. So it's almost like the, the the man with the briefcase handcuffed to his wrist almost like you. That's right.

In fact, where they stayed in the hotel, in various hotels, we had an understanding with the provincial police that they would have a police squad protecting him. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was a serious thing because, you know, that was the main admission to the university. So, everything depended on it.

And and every all eyes of the country was on us. I mean, on that examination. We would work at night and and we're only 3 or 4 of us because we didn't want to have a large staff for security reasons. Mhmm. We'll duplicate it there and and and mimeograph it there and, staple it there.

Wow. Wax, you know, put it in the envelopes and and make sure that each province have the exact number of it it looks small from from this side, but it it really took a lot of my time. And my evenings were, just ruined because of this, my years as a school living certificate. So if when you are growing up, you didn't see enough of me, that was one reason. Not to mention all the kids have to take it, but, yes, I hope we'll we'll share it.

That's that was the I think we covered all 3 of examinations. So maybe next time we'll meet next week, I will finish up with, have mind the years of sabbatical leave. Yeah. And I also want to say, something about the radicalization of the student, the politicization of the student body in in that Yeah. Period.

And, some kind of concluding words about some of the pressing issues at the university when we left it, you know. What were what with I think now or what I thought at the time as well, we're lacking at the university and and and and, you know, these are the challenges that we face. You you mean you mean in 69 or 74? So by the time we finished. No.

By by by by 74. I see. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's covered the whole period.

I mean, the budgetary problem was throughout our period there. That was problem number 1 throughout our, I mean, the universities budget did not grow, in the same Rates. You know, ratio rate as the student population. Yeah. And we are constantly fighting.

And and these are ramifications on student feeding, student housing, and a lot to be to be, you know, missing, in terms of physical infrastructure of the university. And Yeah. And this is something and the radicalization of the student also is somewhat, you know, partly explained by the fact that we are not taking good care of our students. Well, I mean, also, I mean, the the the the the the world I mean, you know, at the beginning, it was a mission. You know?

I mean, they could take they could take you and say you're gonna do 3 jobs, and you would say yes. You know? But you can't do that. You know? It's it's not a start up forever and That's right.

Yeah. It costs money. It costs lots of money. Yeah. Okay.

Well Very interesting. Okay. So this is good. So we'll we'll pause here. No problem.

Okay.