Mulugeta Wodajo

Good evening. We're back. We lost the week, for the historic house elections on the health care reform package, but but didn't lose the beat of our interview. So this is the 28th March in 2010, and, we're gonna talk, about your experience at UCAA. And I think last time, we'd sort of touched on what it was like when it first started.

It was only one building, and a 100 students, and, and it was intimate again with the emperor visiting frequently. That's right. That's about it. I mean, the that's exactly what I said last week or last time. Yeah.

That the quality life there was very I mean, we're very few. 100 altogether, 1st and second year together. Very close, even intimate. As you said, one building until the following year when they built, 2 more dormitory, 2 dormitories and 1 dining room. So we have 3 buildings by the time I was in the 2nd year.

Yeah. So since it was so close and so small, you know, it's, friends. I mean, the friends we make there are are lifetime friends. And, I might have mentioned some of the people last time, but I can mention more now. People like the Carlene, Nbusi, Balacio, Taye, Merid, Abraham, you know, Akilu, both Akilu, Akilu Habten, Akilu Lama, Andy.

These are all people I meet and and a lot more. Well, all people that I went to school with both at UCAA as well as TMS. Mhmm. And, all the students came from only 3 schools. I think I mentioned that last time.

Tafari Makhonin being the last of the secondary schools to start. And the highest last year first Harris last year, secondary school, Wingate and the secondary section of the primary calling. So we, everybody knew each other. Yeah. And, in many ways, this was the the cream of the cream of the cream.

We had a special position which was, amplified by the very attractive color uniform we wore. And we had a blazer, wool, navy blue, as a jacket and then a gray gray pants also wool. And, in those days to wear wool is, you know, is out of this world. Uh-huh. Khaki and cotton is, you know, that is it's hard enough to get khakis and and and cotton.

Mhmm. A whole high shirt. Yeah. So they could be spotted from a long distance. And How do you call it?

Insignia. Yeah. Insignia. Yeah. On our chest, you know, which said, UCAN had a little, nice bright, diagram there with of of signs and books and the torch, that attracted from would attract people from very long distance.

Wow. So it it could be some people, you know, envied us. They were, it was clear that we were, exclusive students, people of great pride and that will that we felt like the future was ours. When our heads were high and our chest was, you know, so so so that was the kind of student value there was in in those days. The life there was quite structured.

I might have mentioned it last time. Mhmm. We had a set program, very few options. The curriculum was broad. I think the aim there was to produce generalists, broad based generalists in the arts and sciences are not specialists, obviously.

It's a liberal arts, Scottish kind of thing. But but even by American standards, it was it was more broad than here. How do they make the curriculum? I mean, this is the thing that's confusing. I mean, the thing didn't exist, and all of a sudden, everything is going.

I mean, where was there some long planning period that, you know, that was happening? Or Well, the judges probably use their own experience plus what their assessment of what Ethiopia needed. And, they just went ahead with it. There was nobody to, challenge them. I mean, yeah.

No no no school board. I mean, they just No school. Yeah. Well, there was a board of a board of the governors but I mean, they were mostly civil servants and bureaucrats. So they just let doctor Matt the president to and his group to go ahead and draw up the curriculum.

When I joined the University College in 1951, I started actually in science. And, and I was in science B, which is the biological sciences. Mhmm. I had a kind of a vague, yeah, a vague interest in, becoming a pharmacist. Okay.

I never knew any of this. Yeah. And it it wasn't really clear professional choice, but somehow I had read some books or something on pharmacies and pharmacology and that kind of thing. And being an 18 year old no. Yeah.

18 year old, I was I was excited. So 17 year old. So I went to pharma to that unit, the science. Plus, I had done well at the University College. So, you know, I could take any any field I wanted.

There was no problem. It is only during my 2nd year that, I moved to education. Okay. What happened was at the end of my freshman year, going into the 2nd year in 1952, 53, I fell ill. I don't know what exactly the cause of my sickness.

But, in one event, that we had gone out to witness as university college. But, you know, university college being, students being of high prestige, you are invited to all kinds of things, you know, like military drills or military Yeah. Maneuvers. So it was, in fact, at a at a military maneuver out in some forest, not far, but 40, 50 miles from kilometers from Addis Ababa. Mhmm.

You know, the group of us had gone there. We had the invitation of the army to see the movers, and I I fainted there. And, I I still don't know what happened. Malaria, maybe? Hello?

I had to. Yes? You dropped out for a quick second. You went out I mean, could it be malaria? I mean, if you were outside and Well, no.

It was just temporary. I mean, you know, I I was out for about 2 weeks. Mhmm. But, by then, they just decided that that, I should repeat the year. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. And in any event, I was, not in mood to continue in in science. I had lost interest in the field. So they put me they found a job for me in a school just across from the University College, in the at the theological school. It's across the street from from the University College.

There I I was hired to teach, arithmetic, mathematics, and science. The teach the students there were priests and deacons and deptaras, and they were all much older than me. The director was a guy from India, a Coptic Christian from India, a fantastic speaker, a highly able person. He he became the I was probably the youngest teacher there in the school because everybody else was. So he got fond of me, and, he gave me more and more responsibility.

And before I knew it, I was virtually the assistant director of the school, and I I was only 19. And, and, so I was also he called me dean of discipline. So, what I did was I tried to import to, the theological school what we had at the University College across the street. Mhmm. So I immediately instituted compulsory evening study for all those guys.

And I would wait outside the dining room with a little bed. And as soon as the dining room you know, after the dining room was cleaned, after dinner, I would ring the bed, and they would line up and going into the school. Just the way we did it at University College. Wow. And I also instituted, periodic tests for those, people, for those older people.

I lived on that campus. I ate there. And I was, I mean, everybody was looking up on me, although I was young, you know, that I was from the University College. Yeah. So it was a big thing.

Yeah. I remember when the paymaster came to pay salaries, you know. My salary was among the highest. Oh, my God. Because everybody at school tells that the theological school are old priests from the various churches and monasteries, so they were paid very little.

And as a university student, the second and 1st year, completed 1st year Yeah. I forget the amount. Maybe it was a 180 or it was less than 200 a month, but that was very, very high in those days. I think something like a 150 or between a 150 and 200. But it's not it's not a change.

I mean, you know, if you I mean, you know, forever, it was based on age. I mean, in respect, you know, it came from age and position. And now a 19 year old is, you know, telling these people where to line up and, you know, taking home the salary. I mean, was that That's a very good question. That's I mean, this this is this is a problem throughout Ethiopia.

I mean, the young people who who are going to the modern schools, to the public schools, became completely detwined. I mean, they were completely separated from their from their parents. They yeah. The parents were not in a position to tell them do this, do that, and the other because they felt that these kids knew better. Mhmm.

Unless unless it was something more traditional roles of, you know, and so forth and so. But on on, generally, this is one of the, problems of, education in Ethiopia. One of the outcomes of Yeah. Maybe we'll we'll get back to this one. Later on.

Yeah. But but here it is. I mean, it's in microcosm on year 1 of, you know, fresh out with your blazer, you're in the middle of the priests. I mean, you know, that they're turning upside down. Yeah.

And lots of them I mean, first of all of them are older than I was. In fact, not not too long ago, I met an old man. He's now old. Of course, we're older. And, he introduced me to his friend as his teacher.

And all the rather embarrassed because he was at that school at the time, apparently. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, when I, apparently, the Jesuits were watching me from their from the UCA campus across the street when I was doing all this, you know, when I was ringing the bell, lining up the priests, and trying to bring some sort of a discipline and order into the into the school. So they were quite impressed with me, and and they allowed me to reenter the university.

Because once you leave the university college, the I don't know if anyone else was allowed to reenter. No. Yeah. So I was reentered the the university college, but I lost a year. Nice.

So instead of graduating in 1955 as I should have, because I entered in 1951, I graduated in 1956. So you lost wait. 4 oh, 55, 56. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I should have graduated in 50 Yeah. 5. Yeah.

But I graduated in 56 with Kiflin, Teshoma, and Kalli who had entered the college 1 year after me. Okay. Graduated. We all I graduated with them. Okay.

But I joined, as I said, education at that time. And I was kind of, I was not in a position to, First of all, I thought it was okay. But, even if I didn't like the subject, I was not in a position to argue because, you know, it was a great privilege for, that they gave me to reenter the university college. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I who would argue with them anyway? I mean, did they We would argue with them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. You just take what you're given. Yeah. Mhmm. And I I just want to say a little more about the curriculum or the the subjects we learned there.

Uh-huh. Great. Yeah. We had the the, you know, the some of the courses are all the, I mean, regular courses like English and Amharic. So those are okay.

The English language course was taught by an Englishman, which was which was very good because, this was the first time we're having an English teacher who was a native speaker. Wow. When we're at here at the at the Framingham, our teachers were French Canadians who spoke very, very broken English. Interesting. And it's a and this is a miracle that some of us some of the students spoke, in fact, better English than the teachers, but, that was then.

They find it mine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then we had French, taught by, also by by one of the French Canadians.

We had political science. This is everybody by the way. Yeah. Political science was taught by one of those East Europeans that I mentioned the other day. This man, Prudrzeski, is a Polish professor.

He was a professor in his own country. But when the country was invaded by the Russians after 2nd World War, you know, he's among those who are what they call DP, displaced persons Yeah. Who are given refugees in Ethiopia. He he was already a professor in his country. So we were lucky to have him as our political science teacher.

We had what they called survey of Africa. I still don't know what it is, but because the guy who taught us, professor Jasmine was one of he too was a a Polish, but was born and bred in England. But he still had a little. He wasn't born in Britain. But he was he was a Polish ancestry, but in in in in in in England, he taught, what you call, suburb of Africa.

It's kind of The the English version of Africa? Yeah. He he he he taught politics, anthropology, sociology, current affairs, everything together. He was a major in the British army that came with the British in Ethiopia to Ethiopia at the end of the war Right. And stayed With Wingate himself?

Yeah. Yeah. He was Wingate. Yeah. And he stayed on.

He stayed on and, became our teacher of Serbia of Africa. We had geography taught by a man called Solodohin. He was a Hungarian guy also, one of the displaced person when his country was occupied. They had a course called jurisprudence. Taught also by a Polish guy, Kruski, mister Kruski.

Economics, was taught by mister Grzegiewicz. Also a Polish guy. No. No. Grzegiewicz I think was a a Czech.

Mhmm. Czech. So we had Polish, Hungarians, Czechs, you know, our teachers. Wow. The main subject, of course, was the center of everything.

And this is what I wanted to highlight really was Mhmm. Is philosophy. Oh, wow. We had 4 years of very intensive philosophy, classes in philosophy. Oh my god.

My mind you, this was not a philosophy as we know it here. It's not a comparative philosophy. It wasn't philosophy that you just, pick and choose, you know, read Hegel today and can't tomorrow. No. This was a complete set of the Aristotelian philosophy.

Philosophy of Thomas Aquinas, the center of the Catholic church. I mean, the center of the Catholic philosophy. Mhmm. But it's in the Aquinas and and, and and Aristotle. So in the 1st year, we would have epistemology, what they call epistemology, a whole year.

Oh my god. 2nd year 2nd year, we had logic for the whole year. 3rd year, we had metaphysics for the whole year. In the 4th year, they they had what they called theodicy. And this theodicy is a very interesting, subject, in in the Aristotelian thought field of philosophy.

It's trying to prove the existence of God or to explain the existence of God without what they call revealed knowledge, without religion. Just through logic, you know, the uncaused cause. You know, everything has a cause. So, at the end of the line, you get something that is called that had no cause, you know, it was there. It was there.

Yeah. So, that uncused cause is called God. Anyway, it was Wow. It was on a very elaborate, worldview of, Aristotelian. And we are not allowed to read any anything else really.

I mean, there are cases I remember of cases where, when we saw books by Kant or or Hagel in the library, it was locked. We were not allowed to take care of it. It was like worse than liquor. Yeah. It was locked.

And in fact, when remember at one of our sessions I mentioned, I think last time or the one before, when the university college was trying to get, some kind of affiliation with London University and a group of, assessors came from London University. One of their comments was how that, the kind of philosophy or thought was too exclusive. I mean, you know, just Yeah. Just, there was no comparative studies. I mean, you just you just take it or leave it.

So at the end of those 4 years, I mean, we were all, experts on our study and philosophy about syllogism, about axioms Oh, my god. Principle of contradiction. I mean, you know It's a lost art. Yeah. Yeah.

And the whole set of activities, follow that. I mean, you know, the students outside the outside, you know, in their evenings or, you know, in the during dining room, they will continue to discuss things whether whether principle of contradiction apply to this or that. God. I can't imagine. And your blue blazers, I mean, it's almost like, you know, the Harvard, you know, the Harvard, eating club or something.

Yeah. Yeah. And the group of, students were very good in arguing. You could argue almost anything. Yeah.

They were called the Sophists. You you've heard of the Sophists in with the good argument. And there were softies among us there in those years. This this blends well with the Ethiopian, you know, culture of continuous argument. Yeah.

Exactly. Anyway, in addition to, of course, the academic studies, we had, lots of extra. I mean, you know, sports and other activities. I mean, the sports is very central to all, Jesuit education. So we had a good soccer team, which actually played on the in the National League.

Wow. Played the air force. They played the Saint George. They played all the major, teams in the country. The the our team played.

Usually, they lost, but sometimes they win. We had a fantastic basket with team fantastic in the sense that I think they won cups many times in the national cups. Really? Yeah. I never knew that basketball was popular.

Oh, very popular. There was, I mean, next to the Greeks and the Armenians, could never out was the, you know, the most popular. And then, of course, the smaller game the smaller, games like ping pong, badminton. I didn't play any in any of these. My the one the one I participated in was was, in Chase.

Okay. CAICE was Was that is that part is that part of the sports curriculum? I'm not sure. That might be a philosophy curriculum. Exactly.

Yeah. We had a a theater and and and, and place where the emperor would come and and, you know, officiate over some of the place we, acted. Shakespeare, Moliere, McBean, all kinds of, the classical classical place. They they would do they would do a whole the whole Shakespeare, like a whole Macbeth? Yes.

Yes. It was It's amazing. Yeah. I mean and I mean and this is on top of your curriculum. I mean Yes.

Yes. How was this even done? I mean, who found the time? Yes. They would do that.

And, I remember one day, one of the, one of the in one of the Shakespeare plays, I think it was. Yeah. It was. The we had invited the, British ambassador to Addis Ababa to Ethiopia as the patron. We always invite someone as a patron.

He sits on a high turn. And at the end of the, you know and we were very proud, you know, to play, McBaith and so forth. Mhmm. He he he said the best he could say was, this was a good try. We are very disappointed.

You know what? That might be a good compliment from a Brit too. You don't know. Yeah. By the way, all of these activities, the, all the sports activities and the cultural activities, Oh, I forgot to mention the other, clubs that we had.

The debating club. Mhmm. Had a very active debating club, you know, maybe with all that logic, and epistemology. Yeah. How's it go somewhere?

Yeah. It's got the so we had the, the matting club. We had a a photograph club photography club. I was a I was a member there. We could develop and print our own pictures there.

We had an ethnological society which was very very good because, Kornayansky, whom you knew, whom you know, was the one who was our all of these societies, all of these clubs, they were they had to have a professor or a teacher as a as the, how do you call it? As a patron or as a Yeah. Yeah. As an adviser. So for ethnological society, it was, Koneysky.

And Koneysky, you know, it was very, useful to him as well as to us. He would ask everyone of us to write an essay on, for instance, on Ethiopian customs of marriage, or customs of of of funeral, or some groups, you know, like among the Oromo, the Dorze, or some some ethnic groups. And then you would get all those typed up and and and and and get established. Wow. Yeah.

That started in 19 52 or 53. And they celebrated their 50th anniversary not too long ago, in 2000 and above. Wow. Yeah. And they had, they put out 2 or 3 volumes of all of those essays together.

Had written also on something or other. I I forget. Kiefler wrote one. I remember on the, tradition of, machine corps. Wow.

Yes. So those are technological societies. Apart from that, you know, we had other very interesting, like, clubs like typing. Everybody had to learn how to type. Wow.

That was a great skill. Yes. Something that I'm forever grateful to those journalists who who had us learn typing. Yeah. Yeah.

So we all could type. And another very interesting group was a kind of, I don't know what the English word for it is, collecting insects. Entomology. Yeah. Entomology.

Yeah. Yeah. They would go out and then they would give us a little, a little, how do you call it? A lot of, net. Net.

Exactly. In jars. Yeah. Attached to a a stick and would go out into the countryside and catch whatever insect you could bring and put them all to, you know, collect them and bring them to the the college. And again, it was a nice kid who started this.

You would know which ones were special and which ones were just regular insects not worth preserving. And and, yeah. And he had a quite a fantastic collection of, Ethiopian insects from various parts of the country through that, through this endeavor. I mean, oh, that's amazing. I mean, this this whole thing I mean, this is within I mean, you were there for you were there 5 years.

So but still, I mean, all these things, you know, evolve over decades in most places. I mean, how did they where did this ambition come from, you know, to be so broad at every level? No. I was not there 5 years. I was there 1 year.

Yeah. And then I left. So I came back. When I came back, I went to the next grade. No.

I'm just saying the depth and breadth of the activities and and the curriculum is amazing. I mean, it's, I'm just saying they they this is a very ambitious undertaking to do all these things Yeah. Starting from scratch. Yeah. Well, of course, one important, tenet of Jesuit education is don't leave these young adults free time.

You know? They would they would stay stay away from the from good conduct. You know? Yeah. The the we are kept very, very busy.

Yeah. These clubs and the sports that I mentioned, you know, the soccer, the basketball, the ping pong, and the debating society, and the technological, all of those things, were got were under the students council. Hecker. We had a students council and for each of these activities, they had a president and a secretary and maybe another officer. So there was a president of basketball or chairman, I think, or whatever the name is, you know, head of basketball and then and then a secretary.

I should mention here that during the 2nd year in, I was there in 1953, I served as the secretary general of the student's council. I was elected. The president was someone you might not remember, but the Schommer not the Schommer the one here, but in he's in Ethiopia as a lawyer. Mhmm. Now the following year, in when I was in my junior year in 19, 53, 54 Yeah.

I was, I became president. Wow. Okay. The colleague was my secretary at the time. Okay.

And and this is a very prestigious job. You know, it was free election. I mean, we would go and run campaign. You'll you'll tell them to you. Promise them you'll do this, that, and the other.

And, and there might have been group votes, like, those who came from the TMS or votes for you if you are from TMS. There may be some of that. But, generally, you know, it was considered a great privilege to be considered, what's the opinion secretary or because you you're invited to even, very high functions in the government, you know, if you're president of the student's council there. And we I had a special visiting card, with my name and the president of the students council. And and that was gave me an admission to anywhere I wanted just about.

Yeah. No. I mean, it's the ultimate networking. I mean, besides, I mean, you guys were already special. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So what did how how did you run your campaign? Did you have a campaign officer, or did you have a campaign office?

I had a campaign officer. He's now he's now in California. I still remember. Okay. And, I I promised a lot of things.

I can't remember now. But Of course. 1 major promise was that I would organize what was called a college day. Okay. Where all these activities would be, enacted, you know, in front of the emperor.

Okay. There will be no class that day, of course. And it was kind of the, zenith of the, sports activity. So for for the quality for that particular year. Oh, I see.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. More subtle. Looks like parents day or oncoming or something.

Yeah. Yeah. I introduced that around 54, I think. And later on, they they continue with it well into the sixties, perhaps even in the seventies. Wow.

Later on, its focus was I mean, I was no longer a student. Of course, I was probably in America. Yeah. I was in America by the time. The, the ensuing years Mhmm.

The students council broadened the scope of the college day to include poetry competition. Oh my gosh. Okay. And some of the poems read were very anti government. Oh.

Some of them even insulting, almost insulting, but at least depreciating the emperor's work. And, and and he was there Cause, you know, he has made it a tradition to attend the college days. So, you know, it it was a it was a tradition to have some misgivings about starting it, but it was okay. Well, it's gonna get out one way or another, but yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I should mention just that something I missed to say when I about the TMS. When I I was in my last year senior year at TMS, I was also, elected as the editor of the school paper. It was called the, Tafarimu Khan inside. So I had an active life as an administrator or student leader kind of things, but in a positive way, not a political way.

I mean, later on, the student leaders were all political, the animals. I mean, you know, they they below they they were either Marxist or some some groups. But in those days, there was no such thing. You you just stuck to our academic life and and sport life. Yeah.

Were the I mean, later on when things got ideological, were were they the same? Were leaders also the student council leaders, or is it different people? Student council leaders. Maybe also they would be taking some from the outside, but basically, it was previous student council leaders. Really, that that led the the sort of the the the biggest, I guess, protests.

Yeah. Wow. That must have been very upsetting for the college. I mean, that's their sort of pride, and, and now they're turning against their own, sort of mentors. Yeah.

By then, you see you you see a had phased out and high risk university had come into the into the picture. So the judges were not there anymore. I mean, it was a different, creature. I mean, the institution had changed completely different. I mean, it was a completely different institution.

But we'll get to that maybe next week or the week after when I I talk about Go back. Yeah. Yeah. When as a teacher then. Yeah.

Under the dean. Yeah. Yeah. So for now, it's still fairly innocent, I would say. I mean Yeah.

Absolutely innocent. Yeah. As an example, the cover page of the Tafarim Khounskolensa in the school newspaper that I was editor of. This was in 1951, my last year in, at TMS. The cover page was a drawing of Ethiopian soldiers or an Ethiopian soldier, going to Korea.

Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Big deal.

So, a friend of mine was also my classmate, Asafaa. I remember him. He was in Asafar Ghanah later on. He was the one who he was a good the you know, he was very good in drawing and painting and so forth. He had a knack for it.

I don't know if he had any surname. And then, that was the cover page. So that was the kind of activities, we had. I mean, you know, nonpolitical. I mean, nonpolitical in the sense that it didn't it was not against the government.

Yeah. It wasn't ideological, but still, I mean, that's interesting. I mean, most you know, that's a high school. Right? I mean, the high school papers is mostly, you know, cafeteria stories.

I mean, just not just not national stories. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are different.

Okay. There so I mentioned the college that I introduced as one of the, events, major events of the college. The other one is the graduation party. Can you stop From say what? Can you stop it for me?

Just one moment. Sure. I want to click my throat. Okay. Yeah.

At the end of the year for the graduation, we had a graduation party. But the funny thing about it is, you know, this wouldn't have been a big thing anywhere else except that because the school was run by the judges, we were not allowed dancing on the college campus. Okay. So the few, so called liberated girls who could, get together. You know?

Yeah. You know, they were not allowed to come to the campus for for a dance. So we had to we had to rent places outside the college. And then the reason the college the the the the the justice gift for this was that it would be the church would be against dancing of boys and girls together. You know?

So they said so the our student our dean of students, mister Bela, said, if you can get, the permission of the church, you will have no objection to give us the dining room. We had a beautiful dining room by then. You remember I mentioned it with a 450 student, capacity. Wow. That he would have lost.

So we tried to get the church's permission. And, at that time, I was president of the students council. Yeah. I was president of the students council, and the calling was my secretary. The 2 of us, plus 1 or 2 others, who went to the, archbishop of the church Mhmm.

Who went very well because of he was also my, head head of head. I mean, he was not as a director, but he was above the director when I was teaching at the theology. Oh, I said okay. So so I used my connection, and we went to his place in the evening, which is unusual because, you know, they don't allow those, bishops don't allow people, into their homes. But he because he knew me and and we are university students with our uniforms, everything, we're a lot going on.

So he listened to us very carefully, and he said, what what does this dancing thing entail? So I explained to him. It was just it was nothing really anti religion or anti tradition or anti Ethiopian culture. It's just like, almost like, Ethiopian's kustar, you know. Oh my god.

Yeah. So he said, well, if that's it, as long as, if you don't told each other, if the girls and the boss don't told each other. Official letter saying that, if they are going to have girls, it's okay as long as they don't told them. There was But this was not accepted by the Jesuits. So we didn't we were not allowed to hold dancing graduation parties, in in the college.

What happens? So why did they send you there then? It was just that they just they wanted approve of dancing as such because he said don't hold each other. I mean, that's not you can't dance without holding each other in European dances. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So he wasn't he wasn't, forthright in saying saying that, okay. Go ahead and and allow them. He wasn't saying that. He didn't say He wasn't telling them to allow them, but he wasn't he was he was giving comments whether or not this was consistent with the teachings of our church.

I see. Okay. So they co they collaborated in this case. I know. Yeah.

Yeah. So So you had the graduation outside in the end, then you had you went to a hotel and had a big party? Yeah. We had a big party. And not only for us, but the one before, you know, the 19 this was in 1955 for that group as well as the one for 1956.

We had, I mean, virtually all of the parties that I attended since 3 or 4 of them were all held outside the Ross Hotel or, some smaller hotels that I don't think exist anymore. Ross Hotel still exist, but, you know, we hold it there. Yeah. Was it a was it a big I mean, like, graduation here is a big deal. It's almost like a wedding.

I mean, all the parents and relatives come as as No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. This was strictly graduation student, graduate students. We invited out professors. Good many of them showed up except the judges didn't show up.

Yeah. And and, the girls who came, we have to write special letter to the school headmistresses. You know? Oh, no. You don't.

Oh my god. And that and that was signed by the president of the council on behalf of the You? Yeah. I have to sign this letter to name, placement in school, 2 princesses, and network school and if others like that. But in addition to these groups that came from the schools, there were some that came on their own, through their, relatives or cousins and nephews and so forth and so on through through social networks of one of one kind or another.

So what did you say in the letters? What did you have to promise? No. That would bring I would send a car to bring them and would, bring them back at the at at at at 12 o'clock midnight for 1 whatever the time was, that they'll be safe, and there is no danger danger for anything else. So they're mostly, concerned about the, not staying out too late Yes.

And that they would have transport. In those years, I mean, there was curfew after midnight. Yeah. Oh, really? Why?

Political curve? I mean, like, what? Just Yeah. You know, people are not allowed to move around. Interesting.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was only later that it was canceled. So but the ones going to our party were allowed until I think 1 or 2 o'clock, whatever the time was.

So naturally, the headmistresses of these girls' schools would be worried, you know, if their students stayed beyond curfew hours. They would just yeah. That'd be I mean, it'd be it'd be worse than a scandal. It'd be actually a problem. Yeah.

Yeah. So so you're a student council president for more than 1 year or that was the one? The the first thing I was when I was a second year student, I was a secretary. Yeah. And the president was somebody else.

But during my sophomore, junior year, as president and the colleague was my secretary. During the 4th year, I was, invited. In fact, there was a movement to get me back into as as president, but I made a big speech saying that I've, I'm re I'm retiring or something like that. Your George Washington speech, he said he used set a precedent not to keep repeating. Set a precedent.

But I could yeah. I think I could easily have won the election the second year because, they're quite satisfied with the work I did as president of the previous year. Yeah. Interesting. So so you were actually so you were organizing the party for the people ahead of you, and then and then your own party was the next year.

Exactly. So yeah. So by the time so you came in as a class of 100. Right? When you entered the school, it was 100 people.

Yeah. Yeah. Did it did it increase much by the time you finished? I think so. Not all that much, but, it must have doubled by then.

I I will have to look into my, you know, I have some statistics on University College. I I don't recall, but I wouldn't be surprised if the classes that the 2 other classes that followed me Or bigger. Yeah. Bigger and and so between them, because there there would be a full, you know, the 1st class, 1st year, 2nd year, 3rd year, 4th year. You know?

By Yeah. I mean, the cafeteria, 400 people would be just enough for 4 100 person classes. Yeah. So so yeah. But they have 2 sittings, though.

I mean, they could come back again and Yeah. They could split it into 2. Yeah. Yeah. So were there graduates so when everybody graduated, there was already graduate degree I mean, their degrees were in different departments?

Yes. Arts and science. Mhmm. Science once in the first, 2 or 3 graduates did not get a a degree. They got a diploma or certificate, and they're immediately whisked into over to graduates to to finish their degrees in in in the United States.

And people like, yeah, you they had 2 years of engineering studies in Ethiopia, and he finished his degree here. I think he thought it's in Indiana or somewhere. And and but there were 2 good schools here, you know, for their 3rd 4th years and got their degrees, engineering and agriculture, well, biology. Yeah. For bachelor or, master's?

Bachelor. Okay. Some some would continue all for their masters, but the first 2 or 3, graduates are easy. They they went out with the with the diploma or or a certificate. Later on, the University College did grant degrees both in Science and Arts.

But I'm talking about the first, 2 or 3 years of, intake. But wasn't that you though? I mean, you were the 2nd year of intake. Right? Yeah.

No. But no. That's for the science I'm talking. Oh, for okay. For the sciences.

Okay. Yeah. For the arts, we had the we no. They gave me this from the very since 1954. That was our So did you so what were the degrees then?

I mean, so you either graduated with a a bachelor's in the arts and a bachelor and then whatever certificate in sciences, or it was bachelor's of arts or bachelor of English or bachelor of whatever. I mean, were there different No. And in the in the case of education, they will put education in parenthesis. In in my case, in that didn't begin until, a year or 2 later. But, it was just bachelor of arts or bachelor of science.

And then and then everybody who did graduate work went abroad. Right? I mean, at least in your year, I mean, there was no graduate studies available. Right? Yeah.

Everybody went abroad except one, like, from my class. Really? Yeah. Or every one of us went. Then that one, that who didn't go, he chose to work a year and was immediately, employed by the Ministry of I forget the education, I think.

Hoping that he would go the next year, but he stayed. He didn't go. Mhmm. But, we were all offered government scholarships as soon as we finished. Mind And No.

Mind you, those who finished high school before us, they didn't you know, they they they went directly to call to overseas to get their college. So so this was not surprising as it was, you know, we stayed on for our college degrees. But after we got our college degree, we are all sent abroad. Yeah. And how did you did they help you with the college selection?

I mean, how would you know where to apply? I mean, you don't know that much about the United States and things. Am I right? No. They're just selected.

I didn't have much input in terms of the college I went to. I don't think anybody did. Those who went to law, who wanted to study law after their BA, like I said, from here, they had to choose a college that had not the American kind of law, case law. But so this but continental law kind of thing. And and they were sent to Canada, to McGill.

Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. They saw the choice between McGill and Edinburgh, but the guys in Edinburgh, the university authorities in Edinburgh required Latin. That's okay.

Not not just philosophy. I had to go to Latin. So they didn't they didn't drop a Latin. So that was out in any event, it was just as well they said then later on. So they went to Gil.

So then they had, you know, kind of some constraints because they wanted to have that kind of law legal education. Yeah. But the other one for us. No. The our teachers, selected this course for us.

The first batch of education went to Harvard as did my group to Harvard. And but they went all over. Ohio, actually went to Ohio. Tech Carlin went to the University of Illinois. California, UCLA was a very popular choice.

Some went also to the south, but not too many. Midwest was the main one. So you never saw an application? You know, I mean, like, they did everything? I mean, you just, like, one day you were told, this is where you're going.

Exactly. My gosh. I did not apply any application. I did not see it for any college entrance examination, the way they do now. No.

I was, I was admitted just like that. And and but nobody I mean, even in 1954, though, that everybody else set for exam. I mean, like, the rest of your incoming classes at Harvard was different or I mean, how There's a graduate school menu. No? We went to graduate school.

Yeah. Yeah. I know. But I mean but weren't there admitting exams then or no? I mean, how how how were they working then?

No. We we just mixed with the incoming graduate students. I don't know. We didn't have any we're not in any way, differentiated from the rest of the student body there. Maybe, there was some kind of an implicit.

Condition that they were going to accept us on a condition basis depending on how well we did. Yeah. But, I think the first group that went to, you know, the ones before us, did so well in their, wherever they went. It it it didn't bring up any any problem the next time. Wow.

That's amazing. So that was that your first time? I guess we'll get to this next week, but this was this your first time leaving the country? That's right. Yes.

This was my first time being in the country, and now some of the things that surprised me on my way to America, in 1956, yeah, in the next session. But, yeah. This was my first time out of Ethiopia. But, some something really this reminds me of the, one point I should have made earlier on about, these various clubs that I mentioned. Yeah.

Remember I mentioned the Ethnological Club. Yeah. Where we had to write. One of the things we did was to write about Ethiopian customs of burial or or or or baptism or whatever. Yeah.

In addition to that, the the the there were field trips to various historical sites. And that was one of the few you know, the first times where I left Addis Ababa. Because when you say was this the first time you left Ethiopia, that reminded me when was it, I left even Addis Ababa. And I think that first time I left Addis Ababa was as part of the, ethnological society out, field work field, field work in, field visit to Aksum. Wow.

So means yeah. I mean, it's just amazing if you think. I mean, I mean, you're now in your I mean, you know, you entered the college, what, you're 18. Right? I mean, you never left Saudi Saba.

Yeah. You never left. I mean, you barely you've never left the campus of to school for that matter. I mean, personally And then and then straight to college, I mean, they put you, you know, through 24 hour activities. I mean, you know Oh, yeah.

What, I mean, you know, it's it's a combination of being exposed to a whole lot of things, but nothing outside the bubble. Yeah. It was, yeah, wholesale change, but, I wouldn't know any better. I mean, there was no option. There was I mean, we didn't complain because that we just took it, you know, that was the way things are.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, I mean, you know, at the same time, you could look around you and see nobody else had anything. Yeah.

Exactly. So I was selective. And when we went to Aksum, for instance, there were about 20 of us, I think. 20 something of us were members of the ethnological club. People you know, We all taken to on a on a on a truck, a flat truck.

We were there was no school bus. So we just sat on, there and, we From Adi from Adi Saba to Aksum? 3 days. Yeah. To first Oh my god.

1st first night in Dossier. 2nd night in Macauley. 3rd night, accident. And and, of course, there were no hotels. And in any event, I don't think they would have put us in in a hotel.

So we had, to carry a a tent for us to pitch in Naxom. That's that's real ethnography. Not not none of this comfortable stuff. Yeah. And we watched the French excavation team that that that and they were they were working in, in Axum.

They published a lot of works since then. You know, so it was, in a hands on experience, really. We just saw them and digging them and so forth. And, also very interesting. And, you know, it was a big deal for the French, archaeologists who are there to meet, to find college students who are interested in their work because nobody else was watching them.

Nobody knew what they were doing. They were just digging and digging. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm here. Yeah. We also went to Zukwala, and we went to Zukwala is good. There is another, it's it's not far from Bishoftu Mhmm. From the.

But it's a volcanic mountain. You know, the top is a is a you have a lake there. Which is like same as Bishota, isn't it? That's also volcanic lake, isn't it? Or Yeah.

That one is even bigger. Mhmm. Because you have you have to climb a big mountain. Oh, what I don't know what maybe it's, you know, where I just saw it's about 8,000 feet. So it was more than 8,000 feet.

So I don't Mhmm. The I mean, I could mention some, furnished thing that happens there, you know. In in that, in Zukwana, in addition to being a big church and, it's also a monastery Monks live there. And of course, Muslims were not allowed to that place. And yet with us in the ethnological society, we had Muslims with us.

Okay. So we have to give them Christian names to go. And, so one of the guys, Abdullah, Abdul, I I remember very clearly. You know, he he was going to do something that shouldn't be done in in in something out of the ordinary. So we were trying to warn him and said, we we asked him, and he didn't recognize his name.

Not given the name of, but, you know, he he never he didn't answer to that name. You know what I mean? That's funny. Yeah. No.

I mean, they take you guys, everywhere. I mean, it's like the it's like the the most doting parents you could imagine, except that they had a 100 kids. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Well, let's just let me just say what I learned or what was its impact on me. Yeah. At UCAA, kinda sort of summing up so we can come back to the travels abroad and service later on. I think the one of the most significant thing I learned at, UCAA, as well as at TMS were gained from the Jesuits.

This, self discipline. Yeah. And and and good study habits and planning and love for public service. Mhmm. And and dedication to public service.

Mhmm. And and I might add also self confidence. In fact, too much self confidence because we were pampered group. You know? We had everything.

We had a special. As I said earlier on, you you could be spotted from a long distance if you're a Yeah. Industrial students. Yeah. So that just put something in our brains that were special.

Specials, there's nothing that could stop us or nothing that couldn't that we're not able to achieve. So, when we came to America, we felt like we did everything. Yeah. And then that sometimes brought us into difficulties in in philosophy, for instance, because we had been given that one system of philosophy, the artist opinion school, the justice philosophy then. And we entered into a philosophy class in at at Harvard, I remember, which was very, very different from the kind of philosophy we had back on.

So now we had to relearn some of these these things. Mhmm. But at least it opened our eyes. It it gave us the, it it made us aware that there is a thing as political signs. There is a thing as a jurisprudence and so forth.

Yeah. And and some of the concepts we learned there, like, when, for instance, I remember professor Shudrinsky trying to explain, that, the individual came before the group, before the nation. Yeah. Individual rights and group rights and and national rights. You know, that was something that we couldn't accept.

You know, we we had grown up after the war saying that Ethiopia comes first, that we're all subservient Ethiopia's wishes, and that all our interest and our motivation was to serve Ethiopia. Now, when in in a sociology class or a or a political science class, we're being told that individual rights, is is is is intrinsic, is basic. And even Trump's, collective rights, you know. Or or or or or or the governments. You know, the government cannot infringe on individual rights that the emperor cannot advise, cannot tell a judge to, deliver a sentence one way or the other.

That the emperor cannot order the minister of education to do this, that, or the other. That was something that was very, very hard for us to to absorb. Now yeah. Those were these are the the this was in UCA or when he left the country? I you know, the individual rights is basic to any society.

He was not a Jesuit. He was a Catholic. He was a as I said, he was one of the Polish displaced persons. In one of the classes, one of the themes that he was developing was about individual rights. That, that is that should be more that the state cannot inter should not, Trump should not, violate individual rights, which we now we take for granted that that that was foreign to our upbringing and and and the kind of propaganda we went through or the kind of exposure we had when we're in, in high schools and and before, you know, all the radio talks here and that the country comes first, that the the emperor is supreme.

So, you see, it was an eye opener in that sense that it opened our eyes even if we didn't get enough there and we had to go overseas to complete it. You know, it was it was an eye opener. And, Yeah. I mean and then what happened though? I mean, so, you know, that first time that you heard that somebody could challenge the emperor Yeah.

I mean, that did it make you wonder? I mean or or is it something that you heard and said, this man is crazy, but, you know, we'll just kind of listen along and not to insult him. A bit of both. Mhmm. A bit of both, but mostly, we took it with a bit of with a grain of salt, and and we just let it go at that.

We did not rebel. We did not not argue. Some some did we did we did have heated arguments in the class, but he would insist and and he would quote some philosophers or or some or there's some constitutions and so forth and so on. We would listen and argue back, would I mean, we didn't repeat. I mean, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. But so this guy this guy, obviously, I mean Yeah. You know, I mean, it's still the emperor's school. I mean, nobody said anything to him.

I mean, he or he wasn't putting it into political context. I mean, this is this is the beginning in a sense. Right? I mean Exactly. It's just an eye opener.

I mean, you were just for him, it's a simple subject. It's just one topic among many in in the textbook, in the political science or sociology, whichever one he was teaching. He would say it, but he wouldn't dwell with it and make a Yeah. Fun of the emperor or or thrash the Ethiopian way of doing things. Yeah.

He would just say that and and let it go. It's very easy. He was, as I said, he was already a professor in his own country. Yeah. A very polished gentleman, and we became lifelong friends after I came back to the university and, was a dean and vice president.

He was still teaching there. And he was he would come home to Gulal and and have been you know, he's so, but he was the professor par excellence kind of thing, very gentle, but, he knew what he was saying. Yeah. Well, this goes back to I mean, the emperor when he brought the Jesuits to, you know, for TMS and later the university or the college. I mean, this is exactly, you know, what he should be afraid of, but he knew that.

Right? I mean, you know, that was his point. I mean, you know, how are we gonna advance unless we bring outside ideas in? But those are those are actually gonna challenge Yes. You know, our our ideas and maybe himself.

You know? Yes. I mean, there are stories, there were stories already even then, going around in the country and in this area That one person in particular, one of the Rass' Ras Casa, who was also related to the emperor had advised the emperor not to open the college, that, opening the college was the beginning of the end for the emperor and for the empire. Yeah. I'm sure enough that that's exactly what happened later on.

Yeah. You're right. I mean, he knew that. He knew that. Yeah.

And it's also in that in that book you gave us. I mean, you know, these things were not hidden from him. And, you know, he he navigated them. I mean, you know, maybe he could have navigated him differently in the last 10 years, you know, to have a different outcome. Or maybe not a different outcome, but at least a a a better transition.

But it was inevitable. I mean, so Yeah. But he was he was quite aware. I mean, I could go on and go and explain how not only was he aware about it, but he had actually said it in so many words. Mhmm.

And like when the dark came. Yeah. And, and people were demonstrating in the streets. Some of the my friends who are much closer to the emperor than I was, because I was at the university. I was not that close to the emperor.

So but some others who are very close to the emperor had conversations that they cite where they said, now our job or or our contribution is bearing fruit. You know? Mhmm. When they when he saw the demonstration and so forth, you know, he knew he was coming and in to some extent, he even felt about it, that he was accomplishing what he started out with. Yeah.

Maybe Anyway. Yeah. But, no, he was well aware of that. Interesting. Yeah.

Well, okay. Well, that this might be a good place to stop. Kind of a kind of a little little foreshadow. You know, one one one last thing I might mention here is, I mean, you know, I mentioned how the my own what I I myself acquired or what was it what was the impact of UCA on me as an individual. Yeah.

But in terms of its contribution to the country, I mean, that's that's that's evident, isn't it? I mean, virtually all the technocrats. I mean, people, in the technical fields, engine engineers, or even in professional fields. Mhmm. Or graduates of the university college, you know, who, so in a new matter of less than 20, about 20 years, between 1950, 1970, you see a graduates, who are reticent and and and and and gained advanced degrees.

Were heads of all the technical agencies such as the telecommunication Uh-huh. The highway authority, Ethiopian Airlines, the electric power, What was the name? It's your it's your LP. It's your pen light and power authority. Yeah.

I mentioned the high already. And even the university itself was headed by a graduate of university college, Jacqueline. Yeah. Jacqueline became the president, of the university in 1969. And even the line ministries, at the sub cabinet level, they were graduates of the university college.

I mean, peoples like the, assistant minister or the deputy minister of education or agriculture or health or justice or university or university college grads. My friends, our friends, you know, classmates. Wow. The judge of the supreme court was actually was the university graduate like the Yeah. Of the high court, Gash Balachio Balachio.

And so, I mean, his contribution to the country is is so manifest, so clear that, I don't have to dwell much about it, on it. But one nagging question is, you know, how come with all these graduates, was they didn't think about political change in the country? They were simply absorbed and they were co opted into the existing bureaucracy. And there was no meaningful pressure groups on all that stood for change and and then to challenge the stethoscope. And this is the big question that, we'll have to deal with in in, subsequent sessions.

I would say I would say I mean, you know, I mean, I think it's it's a it's a good rhetorical question, but the answer is is everything you just told me. I mean, you know, you you guys were the the cream of the cream. I mean right? I mean and without you, there would be no modern Ethiopia. You know?

So, you know, you can't you can't simultaneously build it and break it down. But Yeah. That's true. But also, I mean, there are such things as having no political power. I mean, there there are a lot of dissatisfied people.

I mean, not everybody stayed on, becoming a puppet guy. I mean, you know, some of them had they were very dissatisfied and had quite disgruntled views, frustrated views about what's going on. Yeah. But there was no platform for them to exchange views. There was no political party.

There was no organized opposition. No, newspapers to, you know. So there was no forum. But, this is this is this is this is kind of a self serving answer because why the next question will be why didn't the create one. You know?

Yeah. But, but in one form or another, they became, I mean, you know, the universities and the and and and and and and some of these teachers became, I mean, these graduates became teachers at the university. And they might have help ignite the rebellion that, followed in 1974. Yeah. But also, earlier on, I don't know if you remember if you've heard of it, but you must have you might have read it.

There was a a court attempt to overthrow the emperor in 1960 You knew that? Yeah. Yeah. The university college students at that time in 1960, I was already in this country. I had just finished my oral studies.

Came out marching in favor of the the coup. Really? I didn't know that. Yeah. They were Akili was one of the deets at the time.

Akili had had already returned Akhil Abdiad. And, one of the first things the emperor did when he came back, triumphantly after the coup failed was to call in some of the teachers. There were only 3 or 4 Ethiopians at the college in the in those days To say, you know, did the university students college university college students really, supported the coup or were they forced? And the of course, the answer was to say, no, they were forced. They were forced by the army officers that you either, come and support us, or, you know, your life is on on the line.

So that kind of yeah. The the the the students came out, not professors. There were only 3 or 40 3 opents at that time, as I said. I don't think there were all that many. No.

But yeah. But would you say the 7 of them marched in favor of the of the coup plotters? Students or teachers? The students. Okay.

Yeah. But there are also some civilians who are graduates of the university college, who had come back from studies abroad, who had great sympathies with the revolt. And there were there were later on, marked, you know, then they they didn't change them, but they were compromised. Some of our so the all this shows that there was Yeah. You know, some, disgruntled, some frustration, pressure to change, but not organized enough to challenge the authority.

Yeah. I mean, there was barely any, you know, educated elite to start with. I mean, you know, it's Right. You know? Exactly.

There aren't there aren't enough people to pick off. I started. Amazing. Amazing. Okay.

Great. Okay. So we'll stop here. Yeah. We'll stop here.

I think this will end the my, years of education, long education. UCA. Yeah. Preschool in the Farimu continent, UCA. And next week, we can start, on my graduate studies.

I don't think that should take more than, one session at most. Okay. We'll see. Okay. Okay.

Alright. Well, I'm gonna stop.