Mulugeta Wodajo

Well, we're back. It's been a short, almost 4 years, pause. Life intervened, but it's great to be back. Welcome back, dad. Thank you.

Yeah. It's nice to be back after all this time. The last interview, if I remember, is was, June 2019. No. 22,010.

So that's almost 4 years as you said. A blink. Yeah. Anyway, I I listened bits and pieces of our several interviews, many interviews. And, generally, I think they're okay.

I mean, we've had covered reasonably well the growth and development of the university since its foundation in 1960 2. How it was established by federating the various, colleges that existed at the time. And how the university was run. Namely, there was this faculty council representing each of the various faculties of the university, 10 or 11 of them. Each faculty elected 3 representatives plus the dean of ex officio.

So these together made up the faculty council, the highest legislative value of the university, policy making value of the university. I think you we I've mentioned somewhere along the way that the emperor was the chancellor. No. I don't remember that. That's a that's a great detail.

Oh, yeah. The emperor was the chancellor of the university. And, is that a historical first that I mean, how many Yeah. Well, I thought on the university, and then the first yeah. It was the historical first for us.

And he, officiated at every graduation of the university commencement. And you said, is this a historical first? Yeah. It is a historical first. I have a I meant I meant in in the world.

I mean, obviously, for instance Oh, in the world. Yeah. No. I think it's a British tradition. The in the old days, the British monarch used to be the chancellor, and then the university was run by a vice chancellor.

I don't know that. Oh, so in the in the US system, the chancellor is very administrative. I mean, it's not a it's not a figurehead. Well, in the British University, the chancellor is a figurehead, and the main operating officer is the vice chancellor. The vice chancellor was equivalent to the academic vice pres no.

The vice chancellor was equivalent to the president. Mhmm. And then they had somebody else thereafter, the vice chancellor, who represented the academic side and then the administrative side. By the way, after the, several many years, when Asmara University was established, I think I mentioned it in one of the interviews. Mhmm.

I just the emperor was also the chancellor of that university. So so there he was chancellor of both universities. Oh, he's a busy man. Yeah. And okay.

So But, actually, I I know I know we this is, you know, going backwards in time, but it it always interested me that it seems, you know, this incredibly complicated structure, you know, was just birthed fully formed almost. Right? I mean, you know, was there a period where, you know, you experimented with all kinds of different organizations and different types of faculty councils? It just seems like it just popped up. Yeah.

It looks like that, but I think and this is only really a a supposition. I have no way of, to prove it. There were some studies there now of how other universities were administered Mhmm. Before the university was set up by some kind of community at the Ministry of Education or somewhere. And and they took that time because we in the university, in fact, this is one of the prominent features of, HireOS University.

Hello? I did? Yeah. I don't know. We we I is your I paused the recording, so it's okay.

But is your Wi Fi signal strong? You just sort of dropped a little bit in and out and just totally dropped. Oh, let's please check. I don't know. Like, do you have 5 bars, you know, when you check?

Or where's the Wi Fi routers? Down in the basement? The Wi Fi is right there. Yeah. I I'm in the basement, myself.

Oh, you're in the basement? Yeah. So is the the Hi Fi, the Wi Fi. I wonder why. Well, I I can Maybe the antenna moved while I was talking.

Well, it shouldn't be that it shouldn't be it shouldn't be that sensitive. How is it now? I I can no. You're I could hear you fine, and then all of a sudden, it went dead. And it's not it's not your headphone or anything.

It's just, the it's like the Skype dropped. This is like a dropped phone call on a cell phone. Anyway, we can keep going. So, I mean, I'll I'll I'll count 3, 2, 1, and then and then, you you you were saying about, you know, there have been some studies you thought, etcetera. Mhmm.

You're you're ready? Yeah. Okay. 321. Yeah.

As I was saying, there must have been some studies done, before the university was established. Oh, sorry. I'm I'm pausing again. Sorry, dad. You you changed your microphone, so now I can hear a lot of breathing and kind of spinning sounds, but your voice is quiet.

So what did you change? Speaker was down. Okay. I'll put it up now. How long now?

No. It's too quiet. No. There should be it should be a little bit to the side of your mouth. Like, it shouldn't be straight in front of your mouth.

It should be a little to the side, like, kind of over your cheek a little bit. No. No. It could be it was it was it was better before. Just not directly in front.

Like, it shouldn't that way, if it's directly in front of your lips, then it catches the air. It should just be a little bit to the side. This is the front up. No. I can't hear you.

Yeah. No. It should be in front. There shouldn't it definitely should not be above. How how about now?

It was okay. Well, is it is this as low as it goes? No. Yeah. This is as low as it gets.

Okay. Just say test 12. Okay. Test 12. Yeah.

I don't know why. It's you're getting a lot of, spitting sound and air sound. Like, did did it shift on your head? Yeah. It it kept it kept shifting because we it should be now it should be okay now.

I don't know. The the sound quality is really messed up now. I don't know what happened. Could it be Skype? Should we try calling again maybe?

I can't hear you. You've sort of disappeared. Hello? I I can't hear you, dad. Are you still there?

I'm still there. I can't hear you. Let me let me call you back on Skype. Maybe it's a Skype problem. Okay.

Okay. I don't know what happened. Okay. I'm gonna hang up and call back. Okay.

Alright. Okay. Can you hear me? Yeah. I can hear you well.

Okay. That's much better. But but now the microphone, can you move it a little bit away from your mouth? Like, just it should be in front but to the side a little bit. Like, it should be overlying the corner of your lip.

Expand to you. And then you said there's no there's no you said there's no volume or anything controls on your thing, so there shouldn't be anything else you can change. If it's too loose, it moves. This is a problem. The the the thing across your head, you can push down.

Right? So it's touching the top of your head. Right? It shouldn't be wobbly. Yeah.

No. It's okay. Yeah. Actually, this is good. Yeah.

This is how it was before. Okay. So okay. I have it's not recording right now. Wait.

It'll say a little bit of of breath sound one more time. Say 1, 2, 3. That's a little too big. Yeah. Just Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. No. But there's move it to the move is you is that little thing flexible at all? Like, can you bend it a little bit away from to the side a little bit or no?

The microphone. Yeah. The microphone. Yeah. The the one.

Yeah. Yeah. I could bend it. Yeah. So move it.

Okay. Try again. 123. 1, 2, 3. Yeah.

That was okay. That's much better. So okay. Here we go. Alright.

So 3, 2, 1. Yep. 3, 2, 1. Yep. You're back.

Okay. Well, where were we? Sorry. Skype wasn't cooperating. So, I I asked a question, you know, because I had said, you know, seems like the university just popped out, like, fully formed.

And you said, well, there's more to it probably. There'd been some research done, you know, before it was, it was launched. Yeah. That's that's what I think. Although I have no I was not a participant, and I have no written evidence to it.

But I assume that some study was done on how the university was to be managed to be administered. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Then I then I then I derailed you. We're talking about we're you were telling me about, you know, sort of where we're gonna pick up and and go on from 60 Yeah. 64 or 744. Sorry. That's right.

That was so we've covered quite a bit about the university, how it's all established, how it's all administered. And also, I think I've emphasized off and on, in in our various sessions that, we've tried as much as we could to make that the university, was a service oriented university. Mhmm. Unconsciously, it's it's kind of imitated the or at least replicated the kind of, universities that are called land grant colleges. The service was of paramount importance to us.

It was not we tried not to make it, important to us. It was not we tried not to make it a a an elite university. I think I I mentioned how the students, for instance, of, the College of Agriculture, established cooperatives, for selling eggs or milk, how the students of Gondar, who are not, medical doctors, but, second level medical practitioners, paramedics. Mhmm. How the health officers and the, sanitation officers and the nurses went into the rural areas Mhmm.

To help with the community. And the school of social work, how its students work with the street women as well as the. All of that shows how much there has been an attempt to make the university as close to the students as possible. Unfortunately, also, as I mentioned in one of our inter sessions, we were not able to really give the university an Ethiopian personality in the sense of teaching Ethiopian history, Ethiopian culture. You know, it's all a university in Ethiopia, but it's not entirely a uni an Ethiopian university.

So That's that's that's that's interesting. I mean, what it was the first and only Ethiopian university. Right? So you had some other you had some other aspiration? Well, you know, normally, you should have under the ethos of Ethiopia, the languages, and the church studies, and our cultural heritage, all of that should have been, should have permeated our courses, but this was not possible because there were no Ethiopians qualified enough to undertake this kind of task.

Mhmm. The the first, virtually, the first group of well educated historians at the university level were my competitors. I mean, you know, students who graduated from that very university in the in the fifties. So the they were not the so we were not taught any of this at the university. That's a Whatever we got of our Yeah.

History and lot of our culture is fire reading outside. Later on, by the time we left the university, they had started courses on Ethiopian history, Ethiopian languages. But when I was a student, there weren't any such courses. You know? It's interesting because, I mean, the the Ethiopian scholars that we still read are a lot of them are, you know, Europeans, right, from that era.

Exactly. Yeah. Only people like Abraham Ramon and, Gisak Johayeli and, Tanya Satambrat were my contemporaries at the University College, who were educated and got their PhDs and became professors at the university, teachers at the university. But when they themselves were students like me, they didn't have any of these Ethiopian studies unless they did it while they were in in preschools. You know?

There was little by way of little knowledge of or church education or church, liturgy Wow. As part of our university program. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, we try to have the university become a service oriented university instead of an, egg. What's the word? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, we were not able to give it fully Ethiopian spirit, spirit. That that was our weakness. So where did where did that inspiration come from?

I mean, it was that it was that the emperor's vision? I mean, it was, obviously, it was elitist, you know, by numbers. Right? Those we discussed. I mean, very very few few very few people even have a chance to go.

Right? That's right. But the motto, I think I mentioned to you in Greece was was a try all, and hold on to that which is good. Take it from the Bible. Mhmm.

And and in in an eclectic matter, manner, we translated it to mean, you know, study anything but serve your country in whatsoever field you choose. So the numbers were very latest. You're absolutely right. You were a percent I mean, a very, very small percentage of the age group that went to the university. That's not not about it.

But at least, you know, service was the permeating atmosphere of the university, particularly if you take the law school for instance, The dean of law, professor Paul kept saying over and over again, we're not, training lawyers for private practice. We are training lawyers who cannot advise the government in the various branches of of activity as adviser in foreign affairs or minister of agriculture or or or minister of the interior. It's it's not not what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's also the times. Right? I mean, it was elitist, you know, by numbers, but, you know, like we said before, there was a sense of mission. Right?

I mean, if if not you, then who? Yeah. Exactly. Anyway, we, we've covered all that. Plus, I think at the last session, we covered what I thought were 3 of the important elements in the university in which I had participated in the Ethiopian University service Mhmm.

The 1 year of, service that students were required as academic requirement Yep. To go out into the provinces and work for the government. Yep. And this was described by leading scholar as a stroke of genius. Yeah.

And they were doing their service 1 year before they graduate. Yeah. The idea was that they will work, in the rural areas, come back with some material on which, they will rank their 4th generation to graduate. Yeah. That was the university service.

I also mentioned the Ethiopian we also discussed the ESLCE, Ethiopian School Living Certificate, of which I was director from 264 and 69 Yep. 5 Yep. For 5 years. We all saw discussed at the last session, the special entrance, feeder program, Berndham area laboratory school. Yeah.

For the university and how what it meant to us because through the school certificate, the faculty of education was only receiving about 10 students. Right? Through this program, we managed to get as many as a 120. Yep. So all of these were discussed, previously.

Mhmm. Now today, I want to go further Mhmm. Not only during the same period and, discuss about the radicalization of the student movement for the students. Yeah. Mention a few things about the great difficulty we had with getting money from the government.

The, Perinean budget shortages of the university. We spent hours and hours and hours trying to, discuss budgets and financial allocations to the various faculties. Next to the student crisis, I think the budgetary problems between the 2, they took most much of our time, as administrators. The the budget problems from the trying to get it. From the go okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Later on, I'll discuss that while the students grew student enrollment grew by, 2 and a half 2 I have the figures here.

2 times. 2 and a half times. The budget, the per student budget went down from, like, $6,000 per student per 6,000 students per student to under 3,000 student. Oh my gosh. Okay.

Yeah. Almost half. So you can imagine, you know, doing more with less, kind of thing. That was a perennial problem at the university, and we had no but it's blame that the poverty of the country, there just wasn't enough money to go around. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There's there's more needs than there's, you know, resources. Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. Dad, I paused for a second. We had to adjust the microphone a little bit again. Can you move it a little bit away from your mouth?

Still getting still getting a lot of explosive breath sounds like like little you can't hear it, but it's like when you when you say, you know, the consonants here, a lot. I guess it's it's not recording. Just say 123 again. 123. Right.

Well, fix it first. It's worse. Well, it's not it's now yeah. It's it's you just have to move it away from the moving air, but not so far that I can't hear the sound. Hello?

No. That's too quiet. So it can be close, but it should be on your cheek, not your not your mouth. No. It's too quiet.

Still quiet. No. I I don't know where it is. Is is it Nose now. No.

Not nose. Okay. Oh, no. Okay. But, say, you know, 123123.

123123. Still a lot of air. Still a lot of puffing sound. There's no way to move it to the side a little bit? I I I can't visualize it, so I don't know what it looks like.

Unless does your does your, t does your computer have a a a webcam? We can do a video chat. Can you do a video and I can see? No? Okay.

I don't have to do it. You can have the capacity, but I I just It doesn't Let me just detach it and see what happens. I mean, pick it up by ear, sir. See what happens. If I take it up but how are you gonna hear?

Hello? Hello? Oh, I see. No. Okay.

Say 123123. 123123. Yeah. That's definitely better. I I there's no I can't hear the the the puff sounds are gone.

So how about, you know, 54321? 4321. Okay. That's definitely yeah. That's definitely better.

So I don't know what you did there, but it definitely helped. So 43 4321. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely better.

That's very clear right now. So, so we're gonna talk I I we're not recording, but you said, 2 you wanted to cover 2 things, radicalization of the students and then the budget. Right? Or budget. Okay.

Good. So I'm gonna count down 3, 2, 1. At the end of that, it'll be a recording. Okay. Ready?

Alright. 321. Yes. The radicalization and the movement. And if we have time left, I'll say a few words about the, macro radical leave took place in 1969.

Oh, yeah. More at that time. And, you know, 1 year at Northwestern University. Yeah. I'm curious to hear about that too because, I mean, I I remember that.

It's funny. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

And then and when I returned, I was appointed academic vice president. So I had a different set of responsibilities than the dean. Yeah. As if you didn't have enough before, but yes. Yeah.

Okay. So we start with the radicalization of the straight movement. Now really, it's it's, I feel very much involved that I cannot go into any detail about it. There have been books written now, both by those who supported them, supported the students as well as by the student leaders themselves. Yeah.

Some of those books are in English. Some are in Amharic. And it's very difficult to make a coherent account of the situation. But what I can say is that, in some ways, the radicalization of the students was can we explain through the depression, the very slow economic development in the country. Students just didn't get enough jobs.

Whereas, for instance, you know, as soon as students graduated from university, they will get big jobs in big in high government post. By the time, you know, they got into the late sixties, early seventies, you know, some of them didn't even have jobs. So that possibly could be one factor. The students' consciousness of the wide gap between city dwellers, the poverty of the country, the city dwellers and the peasants. Mhmm.

And and they felt, you know, that this was not how it should be. Mhmm. That the students consider themselves as the conscience of the nation. They're the most well educated group in the country. Mhmm.

In that, they had the responsibility to speak on behalf of the less, educated, and the less able to get heard. Mhmm. Also, of course, the university was the only place where anyone or any Ethiopian really could speak as you wished, could get together, gather, assemble, could write freely. Mhmm. And elect the student government.

All of these were not allowed, outside the university. So they took the opportunity and speak freely. Yes. Freely as they could. And speak freely as freely as they could.

So all of this together with the and try to make the most out of it. I mean and none of these sound unique. Right? I mean, you could apply the same rules to Berkeley. I mean right?

But, you know, but, obviously, events were very you know, context are different, and and, and and now I don't know. I mean, I, you know, I don't know much about it. But, it seems like from where we from my understanding of it, the what happened in the universities engulfed the whole country, whereas in other places, that doesn't happen. No. Plus, there are many Berkeley's in America, whereas there is only one university in Ethiopia.

Yeah. So there are it was concentrated today or, you know, the the virtually the leaders, in training for the country. Yeah. So they were hurt and they had the whole country to themselves, you know. That's true.

Plus, I think all kinds of groups of people who had any kind of grievance tried to make use of them, you know. I'm talking about groups like labor unions, labor or students, clean laborers, workers, teachers, the Eritrean cause. All of us try to get their grievances failed through the students union, through the students. The rallying ground of the students was land reform. But they really went beyond that.

And then they were talking about immediate downfall of the emperor out the old land, that kind of thing, you know. Mhmm. And their main means was through demonstrations and and then class boycotts. Now, the university charter, of course, wouldn't be against this as long as it happened only on the campus. But as soon as I mean, the demonstrations.

I mean, as long as they did what they did in the campus, we wouldn't do anything. I mean, there was nothing. I mean, who wouldn't be happy that they didn't go to class, but there was no need for calling in the police or making a big mess out of the situation. But by boycotts, you mean boycotting school. Right?

Boycotting classes. Okay. Just come out of class and, just roam around the campus Uh-huh. Or, assemble and and shout all kinds of slogans, mostly anti government slogans. But the problem arise but the problems arise when the students want to go out of the campus, which is really what they wanted to do.

Mhmm. In March 3 of August, Their usual target was to go to Mercato. But as soon as they got out of the campus, then the police would come and start to club them and and and yeah. So there are lots of, clubbing of the students and Oh my god. Brutal attacks of the students.

Yeah. And they would, you know, take them as prisoners and put them in a car and take them to prison camps to police, not prison camps, but, you know, the police the police, camps, police stations. Sorry. There are police stations throughout the in city. You know?

By the end of the day, there you would free nearly 90, 95 percent of them. But there will always be 5, 6, 10, 15 students still detained and that would lengthen the students boycott of classes. Wow. They would start to say, until all of our leaders are freed, we're not going to come back to class. And this could go on for a few days or for a few weeks, you know, then the and in exhaust I mean, numerous move meetings that we called at all levels of the university as well as in the government circles to see what can be done to bring the students back to class.

So is it so they got their attention? Absolutely. Mhmm. They got absolutely in their attention. And there have been even cases, I think, at least one case where the military normally, the soldiers, the police are not allowed to get into the university.

There is a they're not allowed. And the emperor would tell them, you know, in our culture, the university is like, I've heard you say actually myself. I heard it in my own ears. The university is like a monastery. And in our culture, if someone, even is a person and goes to the monastery and rings a bell, the priests and the more the monks there would give him refuge.

Mhmm. And the university is the same. Don't get into the campus. Only if they left the campus, can you, imprison them or detain them? He's saying this to the police or to the ministry or so the interior minister?

Whoever was in meeting. Yeah. The police, the army, the yeah. The the yeah. So, what our strength says, yeah, they certainly go third.

I mean, the government could, yeah. But why not I mean, the obvious question then is why not let him go to Mercado? I mean, like, if they're just demonstrating what I mean, you're only exacerbating their problem by making him victims. So what what what prevented him from In retrospect, I can understand. I can I might even agree with you?

But in those days, for those students Yeah. To go in the Mercato and say, down, Zaire Selassie. Mhmm. And you see, I mean, they would be calling him all kinds of names. It was just carrying.

Yeah. They would be carrying all kinds of, plot how do you call them? Placards. Yeah. You know, go to the zoo or all kinds of things they would say about the emperor.

Yeah. It could be very difficult to imagine how that could be allowed in the in in the context of the time, you know. Yeah. So the the police had very little choice but to try to to to forbid them to assemble. Yeah.

Well, I mean, from the police perspective, of course. I mean, they it's unimaginable. Right? I mean, they're they're they're they're they are the authority. Right?

So That's right. But, but, yeah, I mean, in a in a different circumstance, it it could have been managed. Right? I I don't know. Yeah.

We would have taken it would it would have to be the emperor himself, you know, managing it. Right? He has to say, you coordinate him here. Let them march there. We'll put a picket sign here.

I mean, something. But, yeah, it would it's hard. It's hard for him too. I mean, it's it's hard for an emperor to say, you know, you you can go and call me all kinds of things. You know?

I don't know. Yeah. No. No. The police, no.

I just you're right. No. I I can and, also, I mean, I I mean, mean, he's the emperor. I mean, so, you know, part part of his, you know, authority comes from his inviolability. Right?

I mean Yeah. You can't take away a little piece of inviolability. Yes. Either all or nothing. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. As for us, I mean, as long as they're outside of the campus, then, you know, we have our hands are freed. We they're without students anymore. No.

No. You can't. You can't you can't, control the police. Yeah. I cannot control the police.

But having no students and, colleague of surgeons and professors is is ridiculous. So we have, no students. I mean Yeah. Not. Yeah.

So it's just a big dilemma, and this went on for many years. Oh, really? So yeah. So so so what is the timeline then? I mean, so this is not a it's it's not one semester.

Oh, no. No. No. The height was Mhmm. Perhaps 68, 69, but, it grew steady.

I remember once, there was a fashion show. Mhmm. A fashion show and the sponsor were the university women. Mhmm. Your mother was So so they they took the conservative stand.

Yeah. Before you knew it, I started throwing the throwing the rocks and Oh my god. 1964, 'sixty 5. I forget the date. But it's been it's been it's So that that's a I mean, that's a good chunk of the university's history.

Right? So, I mean, if the university as at as Hausas University was, what, from 55 till 75? Well, the university's sales was from 62. Oh, 62. Yeah.

Well, so then exactly. So that's 13 years out of which, you know what's that? Almost, 10. Yeah. You know, there was a so so so throughout this time, I mean, the emperor himself never lost faith.

I mean, you know, he's still attending the graduations. Alright. Fucking somewhat during the later years. I was part of the graduation ceremony. I had already left for my Suspended?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Suspended for a year or 2 years, and you'll return back. Another.

It has existed for 5, 6, 7 years or more. Wow. So when the, when they would go on boycott, I don't know if yeah. What what percentage of the students would actually be outside the school? Mhmm.

When if and when all of them boycott Mhmm. Then, you know, Yes. Exactly. Everybody's grounded. Yes.

Yeah. Alright. Mhmm. But when a few are left, And Yeah. No.

I mean, I would imagine there's a lot of them. I I I paused for a second again because I think the microphone has slipped out of position again because we're getting a lot of A lot of sound. Yeah. I wonder I wonder if, so so I were not recording. So I'd I'd like to this is such a huge topic.

I think it deserves like, I think this is like one of the more important topics. So we probably should continue it. I'm gonna probably ask if I could, stop in about 10 minutes for today because the kids have a lot of exams and and Okay. Sure. And it's not it's not terribly good.

But what I wanna ask is next week, maybe we can either do it in person or I'll come over and just maybe maybe we'll exchange, the headphones because mine is very stable. I put it on my head. I can shake my head. It doesn't do anything, but it's and yours doesn't seem that way exactly because it starts off clear and then and then it and then it changes. So, it it makes a lot more sense that you have the good one.

Really? I mean, it's it's it's I mean, I I I can send you I can send you the I'll I'll put the audio up. But it's it's it's very bad. I mean, parts of it are good and parts of it are almost, un unlistenable. I mean, your your talking is perfectly clear, but it's just a lot of sound.

I don't know. I I can't I don't know what the right word is, but it's like, you know, when you hear somebody who's close to the microphone and all you hear is like like that noise. Yeah. Yeah. Either exchange or, see if if if it's gonna be arranged.

Do you see if it can be tightened up or something? You know? Yeah. I I I have no problems. Yeah.

Even now I can I I don't know? Yeah. So maybe maybe it was just cut our losses. I'll I'll tell you what. Let's cut our losses, and I'll stop it here.

Okay? I'll send you the notes. Okay. So so you can see where we stopped. I'll I'll I'll I'll I should be able to, Yeah.

I can post the audio so that you can you can hear it and see where we left off. And let's pick it up again next weekend. But but I'll come in person, and well we'll make sure the audio is right instead of, instead of debugging it online. But, actually, this is Sure. This is the best time.

And I was gonna say, I I didn't wanna interrupt you, but, you know, you you your preamble was, like, a lot has been written about this, and even the student leaders themselves have written books about this. Yeah. But I don't think this is not we're not doing history. I mean, this is your Oh, okay. I mean, who cares what they said?

I mean, you can you can say they're idiots. You can say they were I mean, whatever you want. I mean right? I don't think, if somebody says I disagree with that, fine. It was meant to it's a this is not an exhaust exhaustive account of what happened.

Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. No. I don't think so.

Yeah. I I don't mind repeating if if it's all that bad. You know? I have the notes, and I will improve on it myself. Okay.

So I'll do I'll do both. I'll I'll the notes are here in front of my face. That I can email you quickly, but I think it's the audio you wanna hear. And then, and then it'll take me a few more minutes to sort of, mess with that while I'm working with the kids, and and I'll and I'll share that with you. And then we can we can reconvene next weekend in person.

Okay. Okay. Sorry. And talk to you soon. Did you did you mean to say that you send the you'll let me get the audio today or when we meet?

The, no. The audio, I'll send you ahead of time. The the the the notes, I can email you, you know, because that's 5 seconds. The audio, I have to do a couple of things just to make it into a small enough Okay. File.

Oh, I know what, let me think about this. That that, you know, that link that you have the website, obviously. Right? But, remember that that SoundCloud thing that where you could just listen to the audio by itself? I don't have question.

I'll with you. No. I can I'll email you a link again. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Because because, I mean, if we don't like the audio, there's no reason we should put it on the website until we're happy with it. Right? So I'll I'll share it with you there. Okay. And then and then, and then the notes will come to you shortly.

Wonderful. I said okay. I thought okay. Bye bye. Okay.

Good night. Good night. Bye bye.