Mulugeta Wodajo

Okay. We're good. Hi, dad. Hi, welcome back. It's May, May 16th, and, we're on episode 8.

And, I think from our notes when we last, when we last paused, you'd finished your graduate studies and, and had traveled back to Ethiopia. So we're gonna pick it up there. Okay. That's that's just right. Well, I returned, with the Esi in, during the summer of 1963 Mhmm.

Following a summer school teaching at at Syracuse. Mhmm. I taught I taught their course, actually a graduate course on comparative education. Okay. At the same time, yes, she was, had one course remaining from Bloomington from Indiana University, which she had transferred to Syracuse.

So she joined me there and finished her that one course. And after that, she went back to, Bloomington to hand in her diploma and do all the formalities to get her master's degree. Oh, okay. At the end of the summer, we flew you back together from New York to Hades via Spain. Right.

I remember that because that was the first time we, I've been to Spain. I remember when I went to America, we would we'd gone from Cairo to Athens to Yeah. Home and stuff. Yeah. So we'd missed Spain.

So this time we we went to Spain. And then from Spain, there was a new Ethiopian Airlines that have just started, connecting Madrid with Adi. Wow. So we took that for yeah. We were among the first ones to take that route.

Well, anyway, so we went to Ethiopia, but she remained for a couple of days in Asmara with family family. I flew on to have this arriving there on, the Ethiopian New Year, September 11, 1963. Completely unannounced. I just I just materialized from nowhere. So it was a happy time for everyone.

My mother and all those who are who are there to celebrate New Year had another reason to Yeah. Celebrate even more. So everybody was shouting and mutilating. Is that how you say it? Yeah.

Really. Yeah. That's that's pretty that's pretty cool. Yeah. So it was a very emotional time for my mother, my sisters, and the rest of the family.

And this went on for at least a week, maybe more. I mean, there were visitors after visitors, cousins, aunts, nieces, and friends, near and far, they would all come to say, welcome back. You know, I'd been gone 7 years, which was a lot of time in those days. You know, 7 years is like eternity. Yeah.

Because and and and all of my families like the calling, every one of them, all of them stayed maximum 3 years. I didn't know that. Because they yeah. They didn't they didn't go to their PhDs. They came back with their master's degrees.

Okay. Yeah. Kiefle, for instance, he turned in 1959. So he was away only 3 years at Wisconsin. Same with with the.

Who else I mean, were you the only one? I mean, that so you're everybody else said that masters and came back? Just about just about. I can't well, I you remember there were 4 of us at Harvard. The 3 of them stayed on, so those didn't come back.

From the Harvard group, I was the only one, to come back. By 1964, I don't think anyone would ever come back. Maybe Abraham had returned by 1963. So the Harvard the Harvard bunch stayed for whatever reason. Yeah.

Yeah. But I don't know how much more because, one, maybe 2 of them have were returned almost the same time. I've I I I I just can't recall, recollect, Phil. And but and also, had you come back? I mean, I don't remember.

Did you I don't remember you telling me. Did you go back to visit during those 7 years? Yeah. No. No.

No. I never did, come back. No. No. Those days were very expensive.

Yeah. I didn't come to visit. No. So, 70 days in a in a straight on. Yeah.

That's a big deal. It is a big deal. So, I thought you can imagine why they were all happy and, and mutilating and and having, those, week weeks long celebrations. That's a lot. I jammed whiskey flowed back water.

They even had an Azmari. You know Azmari? The Yeah. The the monster. Yeah.

How do Yeah. He came and sang your praises. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So I, moved into the big house in Gulali. I think we talked about this during my first or second session, that I you know, my mother just said go in there, and, it never occurred to me that I should pay the rent or anything like that. I just moved in. That was the end of it. That's your house, but yeah.

Yeah. It's my house, but it was also of revenue, you know. I mean Mhmm. Yep. Anyway, for the first few days, I busy myself getting a telephone connection, which which was which wasn't a small lead in those days.

You had to go in person probably. Right? Yeah. You had to you had to go to the PTT. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, getting, hot water for my showers, Mhmm. And upgrade upgrading the fireplace in Gulalevi. Apparently, I mean, I found Gulale rather chilly, especially at night, even though I was in America for all those years.

So we have to have fires virtually every evening, especially, shortly after I return. There's no insulation. I mean, that whatever the temperature No insulation. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. It was it was warm in the day, but at night it was it was it was cool. Yeah. Keflez was already in the country, they said a little while ago. Yeah.

They turned some 3 or 4 years earlier in 1959. Mhmm. And, he was working for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. And I know this is a little bit of a degradation, but clearly, I played an important role in the formation of the Organization For African Unity, o a u. Really?

I didn't know that. Yeah. Which was established, that year in 1963. Just just 2 or 3 months earlier in May 1963. As always, as as as previously remember when I was in New York, the Africans couldn't agree on someone else, so I become president.

Because they could so the same way they couldn't agree on a secretary general for the OAU. So clearly, it was appointed as a what they call the provisionals. I didn't I didn't I didn't know that. It's pretty amazing. Yeah.

Something wrong with, it was my friend, Nefil. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was you. No.

Okay. So you were secretary you're provisional secretary he was the 1st secretary general, right, of the of the OAU? He's like Yeah. Yeah. Except that he was not called secretary general.

He was called provisional secretary general to indicate that this was only provisional arrangement until they could agree on a, you know, someone who would become, you know, a regular secretary general. And in the end, they did agree about a year later on a on a a a guy from Guinea. Wow. Called a man called Diallo Tele. Mhmm.

But he fled stayed on to his, his adviser, because the Diallo Tele was a Francophone, and he wasn't well versed with the English side of Africa. Wow. And and in any event, it was a new country, everything. So Kifile stayed on for a a whole year, maybe 2 years as a as, as I think he was called adviser to the secretary general. But Anyway, Kefele.

Yeah. But he was what happened to his ministry job though? This is not this is a different job. Yeah. But the OAU, you know, because he's the minister of foreign Affairs Mhmm.

So it was a matter of being seconded there. Okay. I mean, the, you know This was his job? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, he was in the African This was his job? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was in the African Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Mhmm.

And this was, like, a, head of state or, the gathering of African heads of state in May 1963, which agreed on, a charter for the OAU and a location for the OAU in Addis Ababa. Mhmm. And, some good many of my friends played key roles, not only Kifli, with Gitaacher Kivrat, whose children you remember. Maybe you can remember Getacheco. From Paris.

Yeah. Exactly. He was a he was an and Getacheco is credited for having, drafted the charter of the OAU. Really? Get get that was the legal adviser and the, minister of foreign affairs

Mhmm. So he was doing he's giving a hand in in drafting the charter and, virtually everything that is in the charter was his creation. Wow. That's pretty amazing, actually. Yeah.

I mean, the that's that's still all there is. I mean, the OAU is the, you know, is the AU. I mean alright? Now they, made it like, I think Africa, what how do they call it? African Union.

Yeah. Just the AUF instead of the oh, yeah. Yeah. Instead of the organization for African unity, they assume that unity has already been established. We'll take that we'll take that as progress.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's amazing. I think, I mean, 63 was only, you know, 9 years after the first independence of Sub Saharan Africa.

Right? I mean, it's pretty Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

And, this just what the same year I returned a few months before I returned. You know? This was in May that OA was formed. I returned in, what, 4 months later in September. But Kifli was already there.

That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Just a chronology. So when I returned, thanks to the help of Kiefle and friends such as the Carling. Carling was at the time working for the ECA, Economic Commission for Africa.

Mhmm. He was not in government service at the time. He had started to work for the United Nations even when he was in New York, living with me, near Columbia. So he, continued his UN affiliation and served as economist for the Economic Commission for Africa, which as you probably know, was also held hostage in in Addis Ababa. Oh, that's right.

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mhmm. So people like friends like, sir, Carlene, Gitaaso Kugrat, who I mentioned before, the, and and and and close relatives like Fikret, Hafsa. I don't know if you remember him. Mhmm. Get really acquainted with my country.

Yeah. You know, surprisingly, it fell. At this time, I did not change much in spite of having been away 7 years. Mhmm. Physically it was more or less the same.

Very little change. It's nothing like the change that I saw now. It's changed a lot now than than before. It was quite gradual. If that There's a lot there's a lot less economic activity.

Right? I mean I mean, it was still well, I mean, you know, it's a poor country that had just barely I mean, you guys are the 1st college graduates. I mean, what you know, how could it change? I mean, it was, you know, it just started. Exactly.

If there was any change, to deal with, it was I will change the result of my 70 America. Exactly. I was gonna say, I mean, and especially compared to your experience, I mean, nothing could come close. Right? So Yeah.

Exactly. So getting physical acquaintance was not, difficult. Getting culturally, it wasn't difficult. It was the same people who the same persons who are my classmates who are now running the government almost, not as ministers and heads of, you know, but as the second or foundation on people. Yeah.

Vice ministers and eventually they will become ministers and so forth. So, you know, small family affair again or a nation based or or at a national level in the state of anthropology level. Yeah. Yeah. Now if I went to a to any ministry, either the the deputy minister or the assistant minister or the director general would be someone who would been would been either in college or out of sorry, Mokgani School.

Yeah. So, you know, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now the first task on my arrival, in Addis was to be presented to the emperor.

This was a tradition, along with about a dozen others who are detained more or less at the same time. We were taken by the at the time the what they call the minister or state for education. Mhmm. He took he took us to the emperor. We that's all.

There has been, you know, people have been returning for some time, before me before us. So there was they had more or less established presidents. Mhmm. One of those returning would be speaking would be would make a speech. I thank the emperor for all the, generosity that were given to them to be to study abroad.

And the emperor in in in return would say, well, well, welcome home. Don't forget your country. You are educated by your government. Yeah. So you would serve your people, you know, and you would give us a little bit of Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So you would say a few words. Underscoring the obligation we have as a returnees to serve our country diligently, and he said that. You know, it's interesting.

He never he never I mean, so is it always that, you know, he talks in terms of the country? I mean, he doesn't talk about himself. I mean, you know, I don't know. Does he is it always about the country? No.

You he said you no. Your government and your people is the way you you put your his back to you. Your people and your government. He wouldn't say me no. I never had him say that.

But the only part that I think the only change from this standard routine of taking a bunch of returnees to the emperor and and exchanging speeches, the only change that I can I can think of was that the Minister of State, Atogorov Moscow, who by the way whose father, Kuflexi, was a friend of my father? And Oh, wow. He he lived in Gullalia, the the guy himself. So he does he didn't know me, but he he knew my father and my mother and my family. So at the end of, all of us going, having, you know, of of give of exchanging speeches with the emperor.

He took me by hand by my hand and took me all by myself. Mhmm. And the others were exiting the palace hall. He went to the emperor and, explained to him. He he he is gonna get out, Joe, the son of so and so.

He has just come back and so forth and so on. And the emperor said something that I can never understand what exactly it meant. But I remember it to in every single word of it. It was just a few words sentence. He said, very quiet rather abruptly, man tatum padman sampanal, which translates roughly as we have already heard of his return or perhaps more accurately we have heard of his return before you did.

Yeah. You know? So I don't know what that meant. And I've been curious for all these years what exactly he meant to it. You know, it wasn't I don't think it was a very friendly statement.

But, I don't know what ever he meant out. So I went on I went around to ask what exactly that meant because it in case there was it was a coded message of one thing or another. And I guess various interpretations. Some say the emperor was showing his displeasure that I had not gone personally to the emperor before because he knew my father and served the son's of a son. Perhaps he expected me to go there and present myself to him instead of being part of a contingent to nameless contingent.

Maybe that was what he had in mind. I don't know. Some said maybe he was remember he remembered he remembered the message, that, someone had sent to our student union to the the leaders of the aborted coup. Mhmm. Say, congratulating the leaders of the aborted coup, and signing president of the European Union, which was me.

And later on, the minister of foreign affairs who was at that time in America with us explained that I had nothing to do with it. So I I, you know, I didn't get into any trouble. Maybe he remember that. I don't know. Others said he was sending a message to the minister himself that he should have taken the initiative to elect the emperor because apparently there was some talk within the circle within the government circle that I would be, I will join the Ministry of Education, at another high level of position and and and and stay there, you know, instead of the university.

And when this didn't happen, maybe the emperor was displeased. I I I just don't know, Phil. But anyway, he said Well, I'm saying why why I mean, the the I thought I would have thought the most obvious one is Yeah. I mean, you know, he knew your father and you the only one who stayed 7 years. So you would, you know, you you would have stuck out.

I mean, so he was saying, yes. I've been I we're expecting his return or something. You know, why Yeah. Why why are the negative connotations? The other one seem more, contrived.

I hope so. But, from his the tone of his language, I I I didn't feel that he's that's why I kept asking. I I I still don't know. Maybe maybe it's as simple as was you just said. And and also later on, I heard from other officials, As I said a little earlier that they were expecting me to join the Ministry of Education.

Mhmm. And and sure enough, some 2 or 3 years later Mhmm. This is the very same, minister of state, I thought, governor Muskan, without letting me know, recommended me as his deputy to become the deputy, in the Ministry of Education. And it was through the intervention of the president of the university, Discasa, who was married to the emperor's granddaughter, that I managed to remain in Ethiopia in at the university. Because it is not easy to be appoint I mean, in those days, once you are appointed officially, and I had gone to the palace, my name was read, by the by the minister of the pen.

My title was given. And the only thing left was, you know, if I had not told, my boss, the president of the university to please intercede and and and and and get me out of this trouble, My name would have been read on the radio and there was nothing they could have done. Yeah. So he intervened in the nick of time and he had access to the palace because he, as I said, he's married to the granddaughter. He was married to the granddaughter, the emperor's granddaughter, well, princess.

So the fact that he would take the initiative and up and and recommend me to be his deputy 2, 3 years later, in 1966, 3 years later in 1966. Maybe I don't know. Maybe it it does shed some light, that, he might might have felt, that the emperor want wanted me to be in the minister of education, and he was trying to cover his skin. I don't know. Anyway, I didn't go to the minister of education.

I was served. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm that's the I don't know. This is speculation many years later, but how would he know what would happen 2, 3 years later?

That sounds that just sounds too much. Too much? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe. What was it that he said exactly? Okay. We have heard. We of course, there are we.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's amazing you could remember a word, you know, for 3 years. Yeah. I I would never forget it, because it it it really perplexed me.

And, like, I went on around my friends to see what what what what does that mean. You know? Does it have a special meaning and so on? Anyway, it didn't. Probably.

Yeah. Okay. To make a long story short, I joined the formally the faculty of education, when the academic year started towards the end of September September 20 something. You remember I had signed a contract that you're on even when before I left America. Mhmm.

So I took up that position as a, assistant professor, in in the faculty of education and teaching the history of education. Okay. I had a in my class in in my first class, I had about 18 students. Wow. All of them junior.

And you know who my boss was? Clio. Of course. Yeah. From the.

It's amazing. Clio was the dean. Mhmm. At the time, he, came to, remember have me sign that contract. He was dean of the faculty of arts.

Interesting. Okay. And and the faculty of education did not exist. It was a a unit in the faculty of arts. Yeah.

But in the intervening time, the faculty of educate the the department of education had been elevated to a faculty status. Mhmm. And he was appointed as dean of that faculty. And an Israeli professor was named the faculty of arts, dean of the faculty of arts. Interesting.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Was that what was his is that his training also? I mean, is he I don't know.

Okay. He did his PhD at Ohio in education. So his career and mine kind of, you know, almost yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Even here at the at the World Bank, you know, He was my boss. Really? Yeah. He was he was the director of education in the in the World Bank when I was his when I was in that department.

I didn't have the fact that I was just this senior educator or whatever they call me. Education specialist. That's a long time. It's amazing to be you know? Yeah.

What what were you got were were you guys in together or the university? Yes. No. He was at TMS. Oh my god.

Yeah. Goes back, 50, 60 years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

But the faculty of education at that time was very small, quite small. And, as I would explain, perhaps next session, one of the major challenges we had was, you know, how to grow the faculty of education. Mhmm. It was intended to produce secondary school teachers, but only a few would come through the, school living certificate, through the regular channel, to enter the university, because others would go either into law or business or or whatever other field except teaching. You know?

Mhmm. So So we had to create all kinds of other avenues to expand the faculty of education without compromising quality. But at that time, there is a small faculty. As I said, 18 students in was the most we had in any one year to to to graduate. Later on, when I was dean, you will I will talk later on the graduating class number to over a100, which is an awful lot, which isn't much, but, you know, comparatively a lot.

Yeah. So so I don't know. So it's interesting. So you're in this school. I mean, their their students were, you know, majoring in that degree or graduating from that school.

I mean, in American schools, you know, you there's a a a core curriculum and, you you know, people dabble in everything. So but, you know, you're 18 are the beginning begin and end in your in your faculty? Yes. Yes. The 1st year, they would have general education course which they took with the, you know, with the other faculties in the other faculties.

Their history will be in the faculty of arts and their science will be in the faculty of science. Mhmm. Now even when they come as students in education, we Akhil started this, curriculum I mean, this, tradition. The bulk of their courses went I I was they took their bulk of their courses either in the faculty of arts or in the faculty of science depending what their major was. If they intended to teach mathematics, for instance, they would take more than 50% of their course in the mathematics department, and and as a major in, in mathematics and a minor in physics or vice versa.

Mhmm. And and a few course in in history or in languages in the faculty of arts, the g, of course, the general education course. And only less than a quarter of their course would be in the faculty of education in methodology or history of education. Or Okay. Well, the faculty of education, I think as I said a little earlier, was a department in the faculty of arts until just about a year earlier before I I I returned.

In 1962 or the beginning of 63, it was given a faculty status, and actually, we became the first dean. Mhmm. We were housed in a small brick building across from the faculty of arts. So we we had a good, intercourse between arts and science, and the science faculty was next door also. So we were all in the campus.

Okay? Yeah. Now I was I think I said I started to teach history of education. I was very enthusiastic for energy and enjoyed the job and all 8 18 students. Yeah.

But very abruptly again fell. Akhil Akhil was appointed associate vice president Wow. For academic affairs. Because up until then, up until, in fact, 1972 when I was up appointed academic vice president for the whole time, the vice president post academic vice president position was, in the hands of an American or at least a or a foreigner. And, while the president was a was a was an Ethiopian.

So perhaps it was to be kind of a a counterpart to this American vice president. They want to have an Ethiopian as as under as as his understudy. So I clearly went there. So we can imagine the then she became vacant. Yep.

So there I had to go in and become a dean. Oh my gosh. It's I mean, after teaching for a year? Less than a year, actually. Wow.

Within 8 months of my arrival, I, in April of 64, I was appointed dean of education. Wow. But I managed to teach until the end of the of the academic year. So, in brief, my teaching career ended abruptly. I I loved it.

I enjoyed it, but I was overburdened with I I administered duties. And in those days, there was a lot to do, for the university because it was just being established. Yeah. You know? You remember in our previous conversations, we are talking about the various colleges that, were formed.

You know? The faculty I mean, the University College of Addis Ababa, Engineering College, the building college, the agricultural college, the health college, and some in Addis Ababa, other side than in Gondor or or or Alama and Arar. So what they did in 1962 was to bring all those schools together, under one name, the highest university. Oh, I under I understand that. Okay.

Yeah. So the university is the whole system then? It's not that one campus? No. No.

I mean, all of they they became, you know, different campuses of the same university. One university, but different campuses. Different I don't understand. Okay. That's a big deal.

That's a big deal. Yeah. In fact, the plan was to have the the other university that would start in, in Jima or or in the south or for the north as branches of our university or other camp like the state university system here. Yeah. In in California, for instance, you know, they they were all under 1 Aegis, but in the on different in different cities.

That that that was the aim we were going into, but later it was abandoned during the. Each city became a it's hard to have its own university kind of thing. In any event, so this was as you can imagine, a a very interesting period where they were bringing several colleges with different traditions. You recall I had mentioned that some of the colleges were following the English pattern or or the American pattern or some were harsh part like the University College, harsh part in the sense that it was it was a mixed not falling in. So we had to bring all of those under one roof.

Yeah. Same uniform admissions, uniform graduation, more or less similar curriculum, or professors, appointments. And so this was a period of real, administrative challenges. Yeah. So it was in that context, and, we'll we'll I'll I'll elaborate on these, challenges in our next session.

But for this moment, let me just say that, beginning, April 1964, I became a dean, but managed to continue to finish the year. And a month later, in May of 1964, I got married to. Oh, wow. Okay. And an and a big wedding ceremony attended by family, friends, and high officials of the government.

Father, Baran Barasimanyu, and my family were had been close friends during before the Italian times, before the the Italian occupation. So it didn't take long to arrange the to finalize the the, arrangements for marriage. And and in any event, Yesh and I had known each other in America and would agree to marry, you know, assuming and kind of anticipating the approval of our families because they know each other. They know each other. Mhmm.

So 1963, 64 was a very tumultuous Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot then. I mean, I we'll talk about this some more because that sounds like 2 episodes, but I'm just curious. I mean, you come back, you know, with a fresh degree Yeah.

Landed, you know, barely, a year. Yeah. And then you're tasked to meld these existing, you know, universities and Ambulatory Colleges into, I mean, these people, why would they listen to you? I mean, you, you know, you've, you know, you you they've been around much longer than you, and and you you and you just started this job. It just sounds impossible.

I don't know. Yeah. Except, one thing. The, Ethiopian staff were very few. We didn't number more than 10% of the faculty at the time.

There was a faculty council and senate, and many of the, regulations, the the legislation as we called it at the time, for instance, or known admissions requirements or course structure or or employment of staff, promotion of staff. Staff. All of those went through the senate, through the faculty council. So, I mean, the Ethiopians took the initiative because of the nature of the university. It was an Ethiopian university.

Mhmm. So it wasn't something that, I or Akhil or anyone did. It was a a group action. Yeah. Mhmm.

But we were in the forefront. You know, we had to take the initiative. The Farangians were very deferential to us. The the Europeans or the Americans were deferential to us. They were experienced, but it was by vote, majority vote.

The the question was really to to be ahead of the game, you know, to to come to the meeting well prepared so you couldn't persuade the others and they will you know? And that we we managed to do it. It wasn't easy, but that was the major the major occupation, during the 1st or 5 or 6 years, I think, between 1962. That's when the university started. Or 61 is when it started until about 66, 67.

It was a period of consolidation in just trying to bring the various faculties under one umbrella. Because when I joined there, for instance, some colleges graded their students the old way, you know, in in one percentage is 60%, 70%, 80%. Even when they graded them like that, 60% in one faculty does not necessarily mean 60% in another faculty. Mhmm. Others would say a, b, c, d like the American way, alma mater, because it was, predominated by Americans there in the Oklahoma State University guys, the ABCD, and how what does it mean when you translate it into this?

Mhmm. Others would simply say, like the English ones, would say pass fail. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Satisfactory or something. You know? It wasn't easy. And similarly with the admissions, you know, some came through, the commercial school or or or the teacher's training college while others comes through the school living certificate, and how to make all these more or less consistent. So one faculty is not ahead of the other faculty or or or students who wouldn't feel a second class citizenship, and they would be more or less in the same boat.

You know? They took a lot of thinking and and and discussion among ourselves. And why? Like, what's the underlying reason to consolidate? I mean, is was there was there an economic reason?

I mean, it's a you know, these things all were serving some need to each of them. Right? So why do they have to be under one umbrella? Well, that's a good question, which I really cannot answer for you because much of this decision was taken before I came. But from, hindsight, I thought, remember in one of the sessions we talked about, at the time, they were talking what what to make of the university college even, whether it should be a separate institution, whether it should be affiliated with an with an English with some foreign university.

Mhmm. The same kind of discussions are taking place regarding the university. They had established a number of commissions to study how the university should be organized. They had invited foreign experts from, various countries, which I think it was called. What was it called?

The, chancellor's advisory committee. Chancellor being the emperor. So it was an advisory committee to the emperor, that sought various, alternatives to one university, to to to this, Federation of University Federal. And in the end, it was agreed that it should be really one university with different campuses. Wow.

I I I think maybe administratively made sense. Didn't wouldn't duplicate the registration or I don't know. Mhmm. Or some some faculties like, the faculty of arts, which had most of the the persons in history, geography, languages would teach general education courses across the board. You know?

So there may have been some savings because of that. Each faculty each faculty did not have to have its own professor of languages, professor of history, or professor of geography, or general sciences. Similarly for science, although, agriculture, some of the those who who needed science were outside Addis Ababa, like, and then then public health college. Maybe the for the bulk of the subjects, one faculty of science made more sense than having many. Smaller ones.

Yeah. You know, it's all a matter of, Did you guys consolidate, promotions also? I mean, that's a big deal. Yes. It's the same requirement in terms of, the number of use it took to be an assistant professor or an associate professor, The kind of other qualifications like research outputs, use of teaching, the you know, those things are more or less, yeah, standardized.

Yeah. So, I mean, at least, in that sense, it's quality control also. It's not just simplification. It's also No. Yeah.

Admission especially Mhmm. Also because, later on, it's a bit of a digression, but it's just as good a place as any to say to talk about it. They established a university outside the system in Asmara. Mhmm. Mostly, it's be because of political pressures from the, Eritreans in Asmara, the Eritrean pressure group.

So at that time, the place that started it, it was a small religious order, a Catholic religious order, sisters sisters of something or other, a Catholic order. They're all women. They didn't have much by way of resources. No library, no laboratory, very little of anything. But it was a university, and the emperor recognized it, and they are, invited him to which answer that, and he accepted it.

And a big problem occurred when kids were dismissed from the faculty of from one of our faculties, because they didn't make the grades, would go would would fail out of the, high resolution university. And then you later, they would graduate from Asara. Yep. Yeah. See?

So they're having, uniform or, or as close as possible, uniformity in admissions and course structure and graduation requirements, meant a lot because salaries and status and everything, was more or less aligned to the number of years you've been in school. Mhmm. Like the ministry salary scale, for instance, if you have a BA, you would be paid so much for I think it's a $500 a month. If you had a master's degree, you'd you'd be paid so much. A PhD is so much.

Similarly, if you left, high 12 plus plus 2, you know, 12 year after if you had only 1 or 2 years of college, you'd you know, the salary scaling as it was in was, was attached, is not touching the things that, you know, reflected your salary, reflected the number of years you have attended in in. So it was important that there was some yeah. That would help retention. I mean, otherwise, people, you know, would always go to the next one. You know?

Yeah. Exactly. And that did happen as I said with Asmarah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's really interesting. I mean, there's so much happened. Yeah. Who would know? I I I I think maybe we can.